Friday, March 20, 2009

More TV Chatter

I know you BSG fans are gonna want to post about the finale, so you're welcome to do that here. I actually have never seen BSG but am sure I'll end up watching it in the near future. :)

As for me I just finished watching the most recent episode of Dollhouse "Man On The Street." So as to not spoil anyone who was DVRing, comments are inside.

Readers beware, spoilers be here!!

44 comments:

SRG said...

Man I wish y'all could have seen my reaction when Mellie heard "the third one is green," that was expertly done. Kudos to Page, Uncle and myself for calling out Mellie as more than just a neighbor with a crush. Honestly though, I kept waiting for something about her to seem suspicious, then figured we were wrong when Dewitt sent the perv handler after her. It seemed an extremely cruel way to wipe out an innocent who knew too much, but I didn't put it past them. I was getting really uncomfortable watching their disturbing fight scene with the soothing music in the background, then BOOM the trigger went off and Mellie kicked some serious ass. I give that actress props too, never would have seen that coming from her meek and studdering character.

It was also a nice surprise about Echo's imprint being corrupted. I was actually getting sort of bored with her and Ballard's fight even though it was great action, I was wondering if maybe it was the background music, then Echo started to deliver her message. I'm guessing it's the tech intern girl who's the "inside man", who else would know how to modify an imprint? Do you think she's in league with Langton?

This is the first episode where I was actually interested in the side story with Victor and Sierra, that played out to be interesting as well. We also learned Ballard was married, which I'm sure is linked to his obsession in taking down the Dollhouse somehow.

Overall I give this episode an 8 out of 10, but I still think it took too long to get the episode going. About 30 minutes in I was checking my watch, then it picked up. Thoughts?

Page48 said...

SRG, I felt that the eppie took a long time to get out of neutral, too. The heart to heart that Ballard was having with Echo's 'date' was boring the crap out of me. Echo's engagements NEVER interest me.

However, back at the ranch, things FINALLY got a bit interesting. I was beginning to give up on Mellie, as well, when the 'hit' went out on her, but sure enough, she's an active assigned to babysit Ballard. Mellie was just way too eager to not raise that suspicion, IMO.

The eppie was titled "Man in the Street", but I found every one of those MITS interviews to be incredibly unrealistic. Very un-natural reactions from every interviewee. Not to mention BORING.

Will Ballard check his answering machine and what the hell will he make of "the third flower is green"?

There are DH's all over the world. Does this remind anyone of Vaughn spreading out the map of SD-6 cells in front of Sydney in the Red Cross van?

Finally, DH shows that it may have the ability to amount to something. Pity it had to go head-to-head with the finale of BSG. Classic planning on behalf of FOX. Congrats once again go out to those bozos. We'll see how the ratings pan out shortly.

SRG said...

What did interest me about Ballard's convo w/ the computer guy was that it gave more context to the purpose of the engagement other than some geeky perv who wants to get laid. I felt some sympathy for him, but at the end of the day, he's still just hiring a woman for sex. We also found out about Ballard being married before which gave him a teensy bit more backstory that could be interesting.

I agree the TV interviews were pretty unrealistic in their dialogue and acting, except for the one lady at the beginning calling it slavery...she was believable. :)

I also wondered about the message left on Ballard's machine, I'm guessing that's a plothole, we'll see. Good point about the SD-6 map, my big Alias-connection was the idea of having a sleeper agent/assassin awakened by a phrase, a la Colorblind from season 1, one of my favorite heartwrenching episodes.

Page48 said...

SRG, it's just that the woman talking about slavery just happened to be black.

Aside from the fact that it's time for black baby-boomers to drop the whole slavery thing (since they weren't slaves and we weren't responsible, not to mention they own the White House for the next 4 years), I also don't think it's flattering that they chose her as the only woman who couldn't watch her language in the interview. Joss was preaching and pandering at the same time. That's Jesse Jackson's job.

SRG said...

yeah I can see your point :-\

uncle111 said...

I still need to get caught up on DH, so I'm not looking at the posts for that.

BSG- I have real mixed feelings about the finale and I'm going to wait till later today and maybe for comments on it from others before going deeper into it. The story twists and surprises, the tieing up of loose ends were good. I hate endings and partings, so phooie on those!

Now for Kara Thrace- What the FRAK??!!!!! Not fair!!!

Page48 said...

BSG certainly could have found some more satisfying conclusions for several characters.

They bailed on Starbuck, leaving us with more questions than answers regarding her post-death existence. The fact that she channeled Bob Dylan to lead the people to the new Earth tickles me to no end. What's not to love about that?

How exactly was Kara the "harbinger of death"? I'm not sure I follow.

The Old Man walked out of his surviving son's life (not to mention the woman he called his daughter, Kara) to spend the rest of his days in self-imposed solitary exile??? WTF?

Chief chooses a similar route, going to live alone on an island? Really? Will he at least adopt a puppy before he takes off to live alone forever?

Thankfully, Boomer was given a chance to redeem herself and took advantage. I don't think anyone got around to honouring her request to tell Adama that she handed over Hera because she owed him one.

Loved seeing Tory squirm when she realized Chief was about to find out that she was the bitch that airlocked Callie. And then, I loved his history-altering course of action (loved that a lot!).

This will make it just a tad anti-climactic to tune in to the upcoming movie later this year.

It wasn't perfect, but it was the end.

Page48 said...

SRG, I'm also of the mind that Topher's Tech Girl is the obvious candidate to have tampered with Echo's imprint, although Topher attributed Echo's remote wipe to Alpha's handywork.

Are Alpha and Tech Girl connected in some way? If there are DH's all over the world, presumably sharing the same technology, could the imprint hack come from Asia or Europe or whatever? Maybe it didn't come from the local DH at all?

I'm extremely pleased to find out, courtesy of Echo's imprint, that catering to fantasy is NOT the real purpose behind the DH. That's good, because it not only adds a new layer of complication to the story, but it means that, in DH (as in great shows like "Alias), nothing is what it seems to be. Bring on more of that, please.

There is hope for DH.

uncle111 said...

EMAIL

uncle111 said...

Page-
I agree with you.
Here's my take on Starbuck. A harbinger brings news of something- can be good or bad. Baltar spoke in a previous episode of her coming back from being baked on earth as proof that death was not the end. Hence her news of death was good news- we live on, as Kara did. We just always assumed "harbinger of death" was bad.

The old man leaving and having Laura die within minutes was too sad for me. But then to contiue a self-imposed solitude seemed uncharacteristic (though maybe that's what the struggle of the last 4 years of war, what should of been the first 4 years of his retirement, did to him), and sad. The hero/leader- drained and seeking hermit-hood.

Lee going off to be a solitary explorer? I don't see him as a solitarian, especially at his age. But then Kara dissappearing into thin air (Kara the angel?)ruined what should have been the beginning of them finally being together and happy- well as happy as Kara could be.

And, I don't see the rest of the colonials splitting up mixing with the cave men, though you could do something cool with that. I did like the 150,000 years later scene where we see news of the discovery of Athena's child's remains (and the show's writer reading the article).

I did think the rerouting of events on board Galactica, from thinking there was going to be a truce that would let the Cylons get away, to a final end of the Cylons and their leader, John, and the way it came about, was cool.

I just wish it could have been a more upbeat and rewarding end for the characters. Instead, they go on as an advanced race to live in a primitive world among primitive (to say the least) people.

Robetron said...

Hey all.

RE: BSG -

I'll admit, they deescalated the series enough in the last 6 or 7 episodes so that the series finale seemed like a real step-up again. I may not be fully satisfied, but I am not disappointed either. At the end of ALIAS, I was downright angry, but I am willing to accept what BSG offered for an ending. Yes, there were a few awkward ideas, which has already been mentioned, but I can take it if there are a few idiosyncratic out-of-character moments as the writers tried to decide where to leave these people at the end of this journey.

I could even deal with the whole circular-time, theisticly guided evolution, since it is as much a fiction as BSG itself. I like werewolves, Frankenstein's monster, and Dracula too.

What really stuck in my craw a little bit was the line by the so-called "angels" that God "doesn't like that name." What? God. God doesn't like that name? How should He be called? Divine Celestial Entity? Supreme Supernatural Sovereign? Ugh. Some people just go out of their way to try to offer crumbs to the increasingly politically sensitive unbelieving crowd.

If you're going to have Deity play a part in your fictional story, stop pandering to people who can't tell the difference between fiction and reality. Just tell the story. If the fictional deity is different than the True One, you're going to have to reveal more about "it" so it doesn't look like a compromise designed to please no one.

Overall, I liked the end. If there is a movie coming, they are going to have to go back in time, or drawn the remaining characters back together... which, now that I think of it, would not be too hard to do. At any rate, I enjoyed my time aboard the old Battlestar.

[BTW - the previews for Caprica looks a lot better than what I thought it would be. I think I might give it a few watches, when it airs.]

RE: Dollhouse

Eh. It was certainly better than it has been. You who picked up on the neighbor girl being an "active" have your well-deserved kudos. I was a little disappoint to see Helo cheating on his wife, Athena, but... that's worse than mixing your metaphors.

He did jump in the sack with this girl way too quickly. But then again, they took forever to develop Ballard's story, so who knows what has been happening while Echo was saving the mindless cultists from burning buildings and rescuing pop-divas from their own self-destructive personality?

You all are right, of course, that the episode was slow to get moving, but I have to admit, I found the insights from the rich guy about Ballard's obsession with Echo to be a little intriguing. Not because it wasn't already obvious to us, but because Ballard didn't seem to be aware of it himself.

The rich guy's confidence in assessing the situation definitely had and air of ALIAS confidence. It reminded me of Ricky Gervais' 1-episode appearance on ALIAS where he was just a regular joe-turned-bomb-maker, encountering the wiles of the CIA. He called their deception "full on genius," while maintaining the cool, calm head of a guy who knew he was going to get away with what he has done. He held a countenance of someone holding all the cards. I got that same vibe from the client, and i thought it was brilliantly played, even if it was a bit slow to the plot.

Then things picked up, and I was "all in," as they say. Still, the surprises were not big, just rather creative. They have given us a taste of what the show needs to be, but I am left wondering if they will throw the throttle wide open and let it reach it potential, or will they waste more time setting up a plot for "later," after I've lost interest.

I'm skeptical, but still interested. I'm ready for more.

-R.

uncle111 said...

Robetron,
The new BSG series, The Plan, looks like it might be good.

As far as God not liking that name, I think to really know what they were doing with that we'd need to ask the writers. I went online and watched a number of the interviews with the actors, writers and others. I gather that the writers and producer/directors were addressing the cultural conflict between theists and non-theists throughout the series, and to some degree between monotheists and polytheists. In fact one of them talked about how science will sometimes come to a conclusion that Hindus came to thousands of years ago.

Back to the God's name question. Depending on how much you want to read into the statement, within even a Christian context "God" is somewhat generic. God actually has a name in the Old Testament. Thus, calling Him God is kind of like calling me "man" instead of Brad. I don't think He really minds, and the statement did come from angel Baltar, so we may just have to consider the source:)

After rewatching the finale today I noticed that when they are talking about the discovery of the remains of the first modern human, which the 2 "angels" reveal is Hira and that her human father was human and her mother Cylon, they also indicate that she was a child. That means the 3 of them didn't live long after getting to Earth. A followup series showing what happened to all of the main characters would be very interesting.

Page48 said...

Would have been nice to see "Caprica" prior to BSG. It will be hard to put the images we saw this week out of our minds and do a 50 year rewind. SRG, this will be opportunity time for you, since you haven't yet seen BSG.

Since we've (mostly) all seen "Firefly" and BSG, I wonder if anyone here has seen the sci-fi flick "White Noise 2: The Light", starring Nathan Fillion and Katee Sackhoff? I had the experience of watching this movie before I knew who either Nathan or Katee were. I believe I will now have to watch it again, armed with this new recognition of the main actors.

Robetron said...

Uncle, my complaint was not that they invented a Deity who didn't like being called God, but that they felt the need to try to satisfy everyone in a very politically correct effort to humanize the conception of a Divine Being.

The polytheists were shown to be wrong in the show. The atheists were shown to be wrong in the show. (Regardless of reality, that is what happened in the fictional story.) Then, at the very end, they re-extend an unnecessary olive branch (to use a theistic expression) to all of the 15 year old polytheists and atheists that might have been fans.

Pandering bothers me from any perspective, and I think people who want to be appreciate for their art, such as TV writers and show creators, ought to be genuine enough to express whatever they truly wanted to express.

I'm just sayin'.

That was my only complaint regarding the finale as a stand alone, and the collection of criticisms I've had for the entire series have been very few in number. I loved BSG when most people were still thinking of the weird campy-ness of the 70's and 80's show. I do not want to diminish the grandeur of the show, but as a long time fan, I felt I had the right to some criticism toward the end. Thats all. I would recommend the series to anyone as one of the top five TV shows ever.

uncle111 said...

Robetron,
Don't get me wrong. I don't think there was anything wrong with your criticisms. I'm like you- I think there were some places where it could have been better/should have been different (and no one gets as sick of political correctness as I do). But I still try to get other people to watch. I am watching it with my brother during lunch time and we'll be starting season 4 in a couple of weeks. That will be my second time through and my 3rd time for the finale, unless I watch the finale for a third time before we get that far. I loved the show- not as much as Alias, but I don't expect to ever find anything to supercede Alias.

Page48 said...

This has little to do with BSG, but when I here the words "political correctness", I lose it. PC is a plague that has descended upon us in the last 20 years and TV and Radio are definitely not immune.

The problem these days is that if you tell it like it is, or like you believe it to be, or heaven forbid, like it should be, you will have every kind of taxpayer funded, fire-breathing civil rights zealot on your ass day and night until you're forced to bend over or go out of business.

The PC zealots use your own dime to have you persecuted and prosecuted but defending yourself will be at your own expense, which is why you can't expect to win.

Here's just one case in point.

Ron Moore may have huddled for hours with BSG's legal team before deciding whether God would want to be called "God". It only takes one pissed off viewer with the Ayatollah on speed-dial and Moore could be under a Fatwa for 20 years.

Welcome to our brave new world.

uncle111 said...

Preach it, Page48!! We're on the same page.

Don't know if you know Mark Stein, but he's from Canada and wrote something negative about Islam in one of his books. A Moslem group sued in Canada and now Mark Stein is judged guilty of a hate crime and can't return to Canada without being arrested.

PC has killed free speech.

Page48 said...

Oh yeah, Uncle.

Mark Steyn was given the treatment by the Canadian Human Rights Commission for telling it like it is. To his credit, he's still telling it like it is.

A fellow by the name of Ezra Lavant received similar red-carpet treatment from the CHRC for reproducing (in his magazine) the cartoons that set the Islamic nutters off on world-wide riots a couple years ago.

The appeasers and the apologizers are on a roll.

uncle111 said...

Anyone here ever watch the Transporter movies with Jason Statham?

Robetron said...

Uncle,
The first movie was quite good. It was no blockbuster, but very enjoyable. The second movie was annoyingly herky-jerky with its camera work in an obvious attempt to make the first scenes appear... uh, I dunno, better... I just could stand it. I don't know if I will bother with the third movie if I find out the camera work and direction is the same.

-R.

Robetron said...

*grumble*

Sorry for the typos


"...make the FIGHT scenes appear... uh, I dunno, better... I just COULDN'T stand it."

Page48 said...

I saw "The Bank Job" with Statham. Does that count?

uncle111 said...

Robetron,
This 3rd Transporter is the best of the 3. The fight scenes are longer and as creative as they were in the first two. The car chase scenes are good too.

I need to do some research on Statham's martial arts background. He is obviously competent.

The camera is a little jerky in some of the fight scenes, and they do speed the video up a little during some of it, but I thought to good effect.

I recommend it.

Page48 said...

Only number 20?

ilovealias4ever said...

OMG.

The 20th!?

AND Nancy Drew is higher up!? *faints*

uncle111 said...

I have to say that with the exception of all but one of the other women "heroes" Syd was up against a top notch group. Not a bad group to be in, though I would have ranked her the number one female and ahead of more than one of the men.

Anyone notice that James Bond has been with us for 47 years?

Page48 said...

That is the most iconic photo of Syd, BTW. If you had to choose a franchise photo to put in a time capsule (let's say for 47 years), that's the one I'm going with.

47 years of Bond, eh? Can we really count the Pierce Brosnan years?

I have to say that I think last night's DH absolutely hurled. Only 6 more eppies to sell FOX on a 2nd season. Good luck with that.

SRG said...

Ok, I was wondering what other's thought of DH last night. I was bored and quite disinterested, but I also have the stomach flu so concentrating on not hurling personally could have been a distraction. At least next week's looks interesting...

Yeah Syd should have been higher than 20, but like uncle said that's a pretty cool list to be on. I like that it spanned so many years of pop culture with books, TV, comics and movies.

Robetron said...

I think Dollhouse bit off a bit more than they could chew in one episode with the spread of a virus and the actives used as a single force. Cool idea, but the background history that Echo was some sort of radical animal activist willing to hazard her life, and to manipulate her boyfriend into breaking the law and hazard his life, for their "cause," was just much too much for this right-leaning man to stand. I started losing interest despite the interesting aspects.

I saw the "bad-guy" give Echo a concentrated dose of the crazy-making drug, but I didn't see how it was all resolved. I think I was looking for a snack, or looking at my e-mail or something, and I missed the 30 seconds it took for them to solve the problem - which tells me they took an easy-out somehow, spoiling the premise and everything that kept my interest through the first 40 minutes. (Well, everything except the short skirt and the lacy leggings, which is something I was wishing was not keeping my interest. As an avid TV watcher, temptation is SO hard to avoid.)

From a marketing stand point, however, they surely keep me coming back. The previews of next week's "awakening" just might be the shake up this show needs. I know I'll be back, despite my complaining.

Page48 said...

Overall, I was really unimpressed by the silliness factor in DH last night. I have a verrrry low threshold for nonsense in a show like DH.

I have been an advocate for team outings because it's either that or all Echo, all the time, which leaves me in a state of constant yawn, not because Eliza isn't cute, but because Echo's activeities bore me out of my skull.

I was really disappointed, (considering the headway made in last week's Joss-written episode), in the lack of the Ballard investigation storyline. The guy never left his apartment. I did appreciate the extra pressure Mellie put on Ballard to drop the investigation. Programmed to play the guilt card? Gotta love it.

Aside from the easy sex, what exactly is going on between Ballard and Mellie? I don't see where they have anything in common.

Truth be told (oh, there it is again), I much preferred my hour with Terminator:TSCC, than with DH 1.7. Let's face it, we'd all be better off with Season 8 of "Firefly".

SRG said...

I liked a little of the silliness, seeing the British lady (why can I never remember her name?) jumping on a trampoline in the background shouting "say hi from me!" got out a giggle from me. What bugged me was the solution to the extremely dangerous mind-altering drug: it wears off. Yeah, I know, mind blowing. That's how they resolved it, in Topher's goofy ramblings he picked up on the drug reducing itself in Mellie's brain (or something like that), and therefore resolved that unless someone got really crazy and killed them self while under the influence, they would be fine.

As for the actives, instead of going loopy they started reliving their worse memories that had been blocked out. I'm guessing that too just sort of wore off, they'd get a treatment and wouldn't remember anything...for now.

As for Ballard and Mellie, it seemed last week that they jumped into bed pretty quickly after the computer geek called Ballard out on being obsessed w/ Caroline and eventually winning her heart by saving her from the evil DH. I think Ballard was trying to prove to himself that wasn't true, and while I believe he cares for Mellie, he's still too wrapped around Caroline's story. I still wish they would tell us WHY he cares so much about bringing down the DH, I'm not going to care much about him w/o more backstory! Come on Joss!

uncle111 said...

Wow. You all are giving me plenty reasons to not feel guilty about not getting caught up on DH. I'll save that for if it takes a turn for the better.

uncle111 said...

Page,
I thought Brosnan was a better Bond than Moore or Dalton or Lazenby were. SC is still the classic Bond, though.

Page48 said...

Uncle, SC was a great Bond, but the movies are so dated now. I don't watch the Dalton/Moore/Lazenby versions mainly because they never play on TV any more.

I think the 2 Daniel Craig movies are far more interesting than the Brosnan flicks (which never stop playing on TV). My beef is less about Brosnan himself than the writers' concept of who Bond is.

Craig's movies are much less 'far out' than Brosnan's, which involve crazy, outlandish, unsurvivable stunts (and Madonna cameos). Craig's Bond is like a 're-imagined' Bond and is more closely aligned with a Jason Bourne type character.

Brosnan's writers were stuck in an era where Bond was the ultimate ladies' man and his dialogue was stuffed with suggestive double entendre. That's the kind of schtick that I like to think was retired with Brosnan.

At the end of the day, it comes down to personal taste, but I'm hoping Craig will agree to play Bond for many years to come.

Now, if Sean Connery would just come out of retirement and make a movie, any movie. I mean what's he doing that's so important????

Page48 said...

Anna Espinosa (aka Zoe Washburne) on "The Unit" tonight.

And miracle of miracle, it's an episode I've never seen.

Page48 said...

Where have you seen her before????

Have these people even heard of "Alias"?

Robetron said...

She didn't play a big part, but its nice to know she's getting work, and if I know The Unit, she'll be back in a stronger role to play, and this episode was only to set up others down the line.

They're really good about stringing ideas together through several episodes. It lends the sense of realism (IMO) because life doesn't just happen as bluntly as 1-episode shows portray it. CBS has managed to stretch the season into three quarters of a year... which can be annoying when a new episode isn't on every week, but it is nice to have something to look forward to seeing while other shows are drawing to an end for the season.

Speaking of which, I think I will go see about watching last night's "Heroes." I just can't seem to give up on them.

Page48 said...

My previous post seems to link to a moving target, but Gina Torres was my target of choice. Her name is on the drop down list.

SRG said...

The lovely Gina/Anna/Zoey is #36 at the moment. Funny that they don't list Alias on her resume, but they do for #50 Amy Acker, who was only in the last season.

Robetron said...

Where has everyone been?

Heroes on Monday took an interesting twist I didn't expect. Good ole Sylar has ratcheted up the intrigue a bit by faking his own death, making him free to wreak havoc in his own inimitable way.

Lost was pretty good on Wednesday, but my comments on it are necessarily reserved for the Let's Get LOST blog.

I guess all that is left is Dollhouse tonight. I'm not excited about it, but I don't plan to miss it either. This is where they "wake up," supposedly. The real story may begin here, or they may be returned to their normal oblivious state at the end. If it is the latter, I may be looking for something else to do on Friday nights.

Let's see... what else? Umm... last Sunday was a great day for sports. My Spartans secured a place in the Final Four by beating the #1 seed. Tiger Woods struggled, fought, and powered his way through his match, bring the tension down to the very last stroke. He attempts an extremely difficult putt and makes it, completing his "comeback" from a complicated knee-rebuild. It was very spectacular, and I never watched golf before. Then the Pistons won their game.

This weekend should be good for Detroit (MI needs it, believe me) with Sparty practically playing on home turf. I don't normally watch basketball either, but I love to see MI-State do well because they are always the underdog in everything they do, so I'll tune-in to cheer them.

That's all the TV, short of news-talk shows, that I can think of to bring up for conversation. Anyone else?

Page48 said...

Starting to see the promos for "State of Play" and I have to think that they hired the wrong Affleck for this movie. Let Ben stay home and take care of the girls while the Missus makes a conspiracy flick.

It's not like Jen didn't have the connections since this is written by the same dude who wrote "The Kingdom" and also features Kingdom co-star Jason Bateman. After all, Jason and Jen do all their movies together these days, don't they?

Also featured in the trailer is Echo's handler. This may be better use of his time.

"State of Play" is based on a 2003 BBC six-part miniseries of the same name which I am attempting to get my hands on.

Gimme that double-dealing, backstabbing conspiracy stuff (preferably with Mrs. Affleck).

FWIW, I'm also starting to see promos for Jen's latest foray into fluff, the title of which I can't be bothered Googling right now. But damn, she looks good.

And, yes Robetron, Tiger's performance on Sunday was absolutely studly. I like to think people say the same about me when I'm not in the room, but highly unlikely.

Page48 said...

As a side note, the BBC version of "State of Play" stars Kelly MacDonald, who we all remember as Keira MacLaine in "Ice", from "Alias" Season 4.

"No, I forgive YOU"

uncle111 said...

"Ice," yes. I bought the turtleneck JG wore in that episode.

Dool you Alias peons!

SRG said...

I'm recording Dollhouse right now, I'll post a new article after (good or bad) since the comments on this one are getting long. :)

Did anyone else catch the Alias music in Lost on Wed? As Kate was driving up to Cassy's house the first time, the same version of "She's got you" was on the radio that played in season 3 as Syd walked into her first briefing w/ Vaughn and Lauren...making the perfect little triangle shape. Enter Marshall: "...AWKward..."

State of Play does look interesting, and aside from the lack of Mrs. Affleck the cast is impressive.