For months and months I have been waiting for one comment or conversation to spark enough jibber jabber to get the blog rolling again. It began with the simple mention that the Rambaldi storyline had drawn away from the true pull of Alias- the relationships. One of my all time favorite bloggers- who just so happens to be new to our blog scene, posted the words I was struggling to find.... Here is what Page48 said:
Add my name to the list of those who felt the outrageous sci-fi aspect of Rambaldi shortened the life of Alias. I'm definitely not anti-Rambaldi, but I think the writers had time to consider a more realistic (if anything about Alias is realistic) direction for that whole affair. It seems to me that when you have brilliant characters (who also happen to be brilliantly cast), you shortchange them and your audience when you reduce their storyline to the level of a Saturday morning cartoon, which is what I believe happened with the Rambaldi story, accelerating at the end of Season 4, with the whole "Night of the Living Dead" thing in Svogda. These Alias characters were capable of telling lots more complex, exciting stories and were not given the chance. Instead they were hustled off the stage looking buffoonish at the end.
Rambaldi was part of the whole fabric of Alias, but I think it was allowed to spin out of control and roll down the embankment. I think it could have contributed to the storyline instead of being the storyline. I think by allowing Rambaldi to be the most important aspect of the storyline, the writers painted themselves into a corner and we all saw the result on May 22. At the end of the day, as GS and Kellie mentioned, Alias came down to the appeal of the characters and their relationships. With all their twists and turns, with all the lies and deception, with all the shifting loyalties and double-dealing, the characters are what brought us back every week, not Rambaldi.Rambaldi gave eternal life to Sloane, but unfortunately, sent Alias to an early grave. Bummer!
Awesome Page48! Now, my question to you all- at which point in Alias, in any season, did you find yourself losing your suspension of disbelief? At what point did you say, "Okay, this is crazy!" And not good crazy, but bad crazy.
PS. Don't forget, today is the last day to turn in your picks for the season 3 favorites. Scroll down to find the categories.
32 comments:
I posted this on the previous article before this was appeared:
Well,
I have to be at odds with most on Rambaldi, but then my personality type is less than 1% of the population, so what's new?
The Rambaldi storyline was a mystery multiplier. The show was good without it, but it wouldn't have been what it was without it. It was the constant mystery that tied the series together from 1st to last episode. Otherwise you would have seen more self-contained episodes. And, look at lost- same scifi-ish quasi-religious unsloved mystery. That's just JJ's vision for it. Didn't I hear that ABC kept him from taking Alias into even deeper religious areas?
Anyway, Rambaldi was big in the pilot, even if we didn't know who it was. Mueller and the floating red ball was there in S1/E1 and in seasons 4 and 5 finales with sprinkles of it between. There are a dozen shows that are more law and order/spy fight-the-bad-guys- we-know in battle after battle with no chance of ever really ending the war. Alias stood apart from them in it's feel and action because there was a suspend-disbelief, worldwide, centuries- spanning mystery/antagonist in the form of Rambaldi/Rambaldi pursuers.
The problem was not the Rambaldi storyline. The show would have been flater without it. The problem was that they 1) didn't develop a well thought out Rambaldi mythology, and 2)they had the series pulled out from under them and had to come up with an ending for the Rambaldi mystery without the understructure of the mythology.
As I've said before, the Rambaldi storyline became fully half the show for me. I'm just not interested in another gritty reality detective show. But add a huge mystery to solve and my mind is drawn to it
I know, I saw that. I do agree with you. The Rambaldi stuff was fascinating, but I think it is where the network started doubting Alias and where fans started getting lost. It's great to have a puzzle like storyline, with the heroine in some way involved, but not at the expense of the characters losing their credibility.
There is a small part of me that agrees with Uncle in this, which is why I sought to keep most of the Rambaldi-stories with the way I wanted it to resolve. The small, few things that would have to change if Rambaldi was a hoax (see previous blog-thread) is the minor miracles.
I believe the super-reality began in season 3 when Nadia was injected with the green fluid and started writing pre-Aristotilian algrebraic equations. The Mueller Device was 'out there,' but given my story-fix, it could have been a means of distributing the nerve agent that almost killed Vaughn, exactly as it was designed by P5 (before any of the characters knew about P5).
The S'vogda thing would have to change, and the end of season 5 would have to change, but other than that, we can keep everything we loved about Alias.
The ruin of my suspension:
In season 3, the wildly sought-after Rambaldi-box, which mysteriously had Irena's name carved into the top, supposedly contained the be-all, end-all of Rambaldi's end-game, but then it turned out that it was not a Rambaldi box at all. Sloane had hidden the D'Regno heart in it (somehow doing it without the keys, which were recovered from the bottom of the ocean). This fouled up all of the mystery that been building since Sydney began searching for clues about what had happened to her over the two missing years. This is when I started to think, "Okay. The writers have lost control of the Rambaldi thing, and they do not know how to resolve it."
Then, with the far-raching into the scifi, it began to be confirmed to me.
-R.
Rambaldi’s prophecy finally makes sense to me:
The passenger – Nadia – was to bring Rambaldi’s essence, his consciousness, to life. She did so by first retrieving the Sphere Of Life. After her coma – and battle with the chosen (More on that later) – she discovered page 47. When throwing it into the fire, she revealed a hidden message. This message was what led to the amulet, and “the sky beyond Mount Subastio”, which then brought Sloane to Rambaldi’s grave. There, Rambaldi’s greatest discovery was found – immortality. And using the Sphere Of Life / Horizon, Sloane was able to obtain this immortality.
But it was not meant for Sloane. He always believed he was the chosen, perhaps the greatest power. However, he was not, he was just part of the chosen’s journey – used to bring forth the Passenger by way of his affair with Irina. Irina was the one chosen by Rambaldi. Eventually, she ended up with immortality. She used the power that she had acquired over the years through Prophet Five and the KGB to become “The greatest power”. Sydney, The Chosen One, rendered her unto utter desolation.
Sydney never saw the sky beyond Mount Subastio – not the way she was supposed too, through the amulet. So, technically, she was still the chosen one. Her battle with the passenger eventually led to Nadia’s demise, as her cure was what drove Sloane to murder his daughter (Leading him back to his Rambaldi obsession).
All of this was foreshadowed in the previous seasons. Sloane’s discovery of Nadia being an apocalyptic moment (Her leading him to the hidden message and Sphere of Life are what enabled Irina to follow through with her plan of attacks on Washington and London, before Syd stopped her).
Irina telling Sydney that cutting a wire was her great power. Irina – and most likely the writers – knew all along that she was following her own agenda. She told Sydney this so that she would stop perusing Rambaldi, and allow Irina to follow through with her plan… Rambaldi’s true endgame.
Finally, just like mentioned in season 1, Rambaldi had only good intentions. Just like Sloane. He was searching for immortality in order to save Emily from her cancer, but once she passed away, his greed to discover Rambaldi’s works took over him. His intentions became for himself, just like Rambaldi’s other corrupt followers (Anna, Irina, ect…).
Rambaldi didn't want immortality, he knew he was going to be executed anyway... so he chose Sydney to bring forth his child. His son, then, would be the geatest power - an immortal man able to see the future, and with the muller devise, he could control people to his own liking. But Sydney didn't bear his child, so the prophecy was broken. Irina, instead, became the greatest power.
She did love Sydney: she gave her an out. She told her to leave, she gave her Issabell, she even tried to get her out of the CIA in season 2, but as we saw in flash-backs, Sydney was far too driven.
So in the end, everyone completed their parts.
I agree about Helix. It's a great idea in theory, not knowing who is who, added suspence, but really, far far fetched.
I think the moment where I thought, "Come on, guys?! What do you take us for?" was Sovogda. The rest of it was a little far-fetched, but the zombies were really almost the last straw for me. If it had been billed as a sci-fi show, perhaps this would have been easier to take.
They needed Rambaldi so that they could have a clear enemy and a clear reason for sending them on missions, so in a way it was integral to theshow, but the big red ball was just a little too silly for my taste.
The problem with all of it, as far as I am concerned, is that we will never know how it was all supposed to turn out, because their storyines were all pre-empted by cancellation. They never had a chance to flesh out the endgame properly. I am sure eternal life was the result, but Irina's story felt so tacked on...it was a disappointment, even more so in retrospect.
jenn, to sydney's defense during the whole "cloning" francie thing, alison was also considered a top agent, just on the other side of the law, so we must also assume that she was acting really well as francie and that she read up on what francie was all about, I mean, she even knew that Francie didn't like coffee ice cream, although it did slip her mind, and that's what eventually gave her away. besides, syd was sent off to mission after mission during that time, and she was spending lots of time with vaughn. they really barely saw each other. if will couldn't see through it, and he knew francie in the biblical sense, then how was syd supposed to have seen it?
But Jenn, to tag on to my post above, I agree with you, the helix protocol thing was totally ridiculous!
Yeah, we saw the obvious clues of Evil Francie because we knew she was a double. Not in a million years would Sydney think that Francie could be involved in any of this. It was unphathomable. But I still agree, the Helix thing was weird and Svogda, don't get me started. I wanted to turn the TV off and never watch again. But they pulled me back in the with "My name's not Michael Vaughn."
Jenn,
Unless I am mistaken, the "El D'rey" machine didn't just write out "peace." That was Sloan's lie. It wrote all of the distinguishing marks of "The Passenger" such as brain wave frequencies and patterns, as well as medical information. This is why Sloane started Omnifam in the first place: so he would have a legitimate cover as a philanthropist while secretly he went in search of Nadia with the information he learned from the machine.
This was the secret that the NSA guy (that tried to blackmail Sloane into assassinating Sydney) threatened to expose, which is also why Sloane had him killed.
This is also why Sloane was so motivated to help the CIA stop the Covenant. He knew that if they put the machine together (which they did), it would lead them to search for Nadia (which it did), and he wanted to find her first, to protect her, and to advance his own Rambaldi-agenda.
The info he gained at the end of season 2 from the machine drove the story in season 3. The statement that it only wrote "one word: peace" was given to throw us all off as well.
Hope this helps.
-R.
Although it is a pretty heavy stretch, I liked the effects of the Helix Protocol.
The initial episode was great. I never thought I'd see them literally blow up an whimpering innocent person on prime time TV. Then the initial story was resolved brilliantly by Sydney doing the unexpected, putting down her gun and letting the double show himself. I thought that was great.
Then, as we find out that there was two people doubled before Sydney destroyed the lab, it brought Will deeper into the center of conflict again, and I think everyone agrees that Will made the show better everytime he got involved. Also, since it wasn't will after all, the plot thinkened throughout the rest of the season, bringing Francie deeper into the picture, and giving that character a whole different approach the to the show. How often do you see a character murder her own character? That was cool!
They would have been better off either leaving her dead after the season 2 finale, or letting her be a regular bad-guy, a constant irritant to Sydney, and an interesting dynamic with her need for the drug that kept her cells stable.
Making another double (of such rediculous porportions) was just a publicity stunt, trying to have the one character return to the story. The technology was suppose to have been lost. It would have been better to have left it that way.
-R.
Sydney did mention that Francie had been acting strange... she even asked her about it. Allison knew this would come up, and mentioned that Sydney had been acting strange as well - clearly this threw Sydney off. She ruled the bahviour out to be Francie feeling strange about her relationship with Will, and Syd and Francie's recent distantness.
Plus, we saw Syd's shock when Jack said Will may have been doubled. It's the last thing she would have expected.
I agree that Rambaldi was an important string that tied all the seasons of Alias together, my problem with the storyline was all of the times some sort of "Rambaldi Device" was finally found or put together, it ended up being a lot of build up to basically nothing. I know a lot of people were annoyed with the zombies and whole Svogda scenario, but I honestly feel like that's one of the only times a Rambaldi creation lived up to its "hype".
Between seasons 1-2 Sloane, Irena and Sark were obsessed with collecting Rambaldi artifacts to build Rambaldi's "ultimate creation", a huge buildup just to learn that the machine produced the word "piece". Season 3 Sloane was on the hunt for Rambaldi's "Sphere of Life", this big mystery that was mentioned in a fleeting moment in the beginning of season 4 in a sentence where he said he and Nadia found it and turned it over to the CIA. Finally at the end of season 4 we see some kind of "end of the world" scenario that yeah, was completely unrealistic, but at least it lived up to the level of disaster Rambaldi's prophecies were supposed to have.
I think they could have wrapped up the Rambaldi storyline in season 2 or 3 and gone on to something different. The show and characters were strong enough to survive that, but in my opinion their mistake was dragging it out so long with so many possible conclusions throughout the seasons that were never real endings. They had legitimate foes, The Covenant, Prophet 5, great "bad guys" that didn't all have to be obsessed with Rambaldi. I think that's where it became too much for me to believe that all these terrorists and crime groups used all their money and resources just for Rambaldi. Sorry to ramble on, I've had a couple margaritas. :)
Uncle 111 - back to what you said, I agree that Rimbaldi was critical to what made Alias Alias. I guess without Rimbaldi it would be like 24. While I thought that some of the Rimbaldi stuff was silly, it wasn't the mystery behind Rimbaldi or the prophet thread, but more the realization of some of his works. I loved the doubling of Irina and Allison and the scientist for example, but hated the doubling of Anna because they showed the process. The Meuller devices in the earlier seasons that were small seemed plausible, but the giant one in S4 wasn't for me though I loved the special effects of them jumping out of the plane to view the enormity of their situation. Like Girlscout, they almost lost me with Nadia's zombie eyes, but I held on. The Horizon was probably when they really lost me. Cool concept, but again, they didn't need to show the ball in the air and all that. Better if it was implied rather than actually showed (like show that whole scene as in shadow) to leave something to the imagination.
The rest of the time, I actually loved the Rimbaldi thread, especially in S1 and S2 and there is no way Alias would be what it was without Rimbaldi. I just think they debunked the mystery too much at the end of Seasons 4 and 5. This is a really tough call because you have to provide payoff to the fans, but at the same time, you have to make it somthing that can be swallowed.
So for me - red eyes, enormous ball and actually viewing the doubling process. But again, I love the show and would totally watch a season 6 or a movie - it is probably my favorite show ever and I am 37 and have been addicted to tv for ages!
I agree that Rambaldi was a very clever driver for the show and I enjoyed it myself, except when it was too over the top (Svogda and late in Season 5). But,as important as Rambaldi was to Alias, it was always in the background for me. I watched a show about the life of Sydney Bristow and Company, not a show about Rambaldi.
I know that Rambaldi was key to many Alias fans, but I would have been happy to sacrifice Rambaldi for a storyline that would have provided Alias with greater longevity, as long as the quality of the show was maintained. It's not as though Alias was based on a true story in the first place.
Bottom line for me is that, come January, Jack Bauer goes back to work at CTU, while Sydney and Vaughn build sandcastles on the beach...off air. Not good!
There is a very good way (if I do say so myself) to fix it all and make the Rambaldi storyline more acceptable and more interesting. But, the writers, not being obcessed with the story as we are, were ill equipped to figure it out. For them, Rambaldi was an interesting story crutch that they used when they needed to juice things up a little. As I said before, they didn't think it through to the end before starting it, so it became a quilted storyline rather than a woven one, resulting in the problems we've discussed here.
What way was that Uncle? I'm sure I'm not the only one who is really interestd in your perspective. I used to read your posts on the ABC board and loved what you had to say.
Kellie,
I'm writing a book and can't go into it any further till I have enough done to get the ideas protected and submit some of it to potential publishers.
What was your name on ABC?
Anyone think my prophecy idea made sense?
Thanks, lhaaheim, Just making sure I'm not crazy :)
Uncle111 - my name was anotheraliasaddict. I was a lurker for a long time before registering at the end of Season 5. I was an overall late Alias fan - I started watching at the beginnning of Season 4 (after renting the DVDs from Netflix for 1-3 in about 2 weeks and becoming a crazed fan overnight). Can't wait to read your book!!!
Bristow_24 - I also liked your explanation of the prophecy - it pulls it together in a logical way. I agree that Irina was the greatest power. I loved that the government assumed that the United States was the greatest power in the early seasons - I never bought that as it seemed too obvious and arrogant. Plus we know Syd would never betray her country.
The battle between Syd and Irina at the end was more satisfying for me than the Syd/Nadia battle which was hard to get into because of the red eyes : ) It's too bad there wasn't more time to work up to that battle and add depth to Irina's evil decisions. She did say during their fight that she always loved Sydney, but it wasn't enough to keep her character as complex as it had been in the previous seasons. Still, I am so so glad she was in the final episodes. She is a huge part of what makes Alias great.
The part of the battle I loved was how tired they both were. They were both just exhausted from all the deception, the Rimbaldi quest, all the life events they went through to get to that point. I loved how they talked in low, slow, emotionally drained voices and how they both sort of melted towards the end.
So is the general consensus that it was blood from Irina's head or Rimbaldi juice flowing under Irina's head after she fell through the glass? Since I doubt there will ever be a movie, it probably doesn't matter, but I'm guessing the juice.
hey this is totally off topic but I just heard that season 5 will be coming out on Nov 21 and that a whole series box set will be coming out at that point too.
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=6149
If it was Rambaldi juice under Irina then she may have gotten some of it on her and lived.
Jess517 - thanks for the information - that full series set looks so cool! I can't believe they actually came out with the full series set - I just started buying the seasons used on Amazon a week ago after talking so much about it on this site and since TNT's reruns are dwindling. Now wish I would have waited. Hmmmm maybe I'll shell out for it anyway. It's not like it won't get used : )
I never had a problem with Rambaldi until the second half of season three. However what was important to me was the relationship between Sydney and Jack. Everything else including Rambaldi was secondary. Not that I didn't enjoy the mythology, but to be perfectly honest the writers, those that came on after season two were incapable of crafting a long, sustained and interesting storyline. The writing became inconsistent. When that goes, character and story suffer.
Off topic - I am watching Season 3, Succession right now (the 2nd episode). I have an issue with the timeline of Sydney's "death" and how fast Vaughn moved on. Uncle111 I know you did that awesome timeline before, so maybe you have some insights.
So we are told she had been dead for almost 2 years. In Succession, Weiss tells Sydney that Vaughn dropped off the face of the earth and went to Europe for 6 months after she died. So unless Lauren was with Vaughn, he had less than 18 months to participate in the investigation, fall in love with Lauren, get engaged and married and get a job teaching French. For someone who was "so in love" with Sydney, it still just seems too quick for me. It is possible I guess, but it seems unlikely. I wonder why the writers didn't make her absense longer?
Anyway, the other funny thing in this episode - Jack goes to visit Sloane and accuses him of being responsible for Syd's disappearance. Sloane denies it and Jack says something to the effect of, "you've just made the worst mistake of your life because I'm going to bury you." I wonder if the writers got lucky with this foreshadowing, or if they actually always knew how the series would end.
lhaaheim - yeah I can see Vaughn getting the job, especially after quitting the CIA - he would need a way to pay his bills : )
I was thinking a little bit about the comment you made about whose to blame. What about Syd? Do you buy that the Covenant was so scary to her, the genius agent that took down SD6, that she would actually let everyone she loves think she was dead (once she was Julia Thorne)? She saw Vaughn with Lauren in that flashback and she would have had to know something about her Dad looking for her and being incarcerated. It's an interesting question. I guess some of the blame, or maybe responsibility, for the way things turned out lies with Syd. She made the decision that set the course of events into play, though she was no doubt influenced by the Covenant. I'm sure that question has been posed before, but I don't think it ever really made sense to me that she wouldn't find a way to let them know she was alive.
Kellie,
I have an updated timeline posted at:
http://groups.google.com/group/2541-Zephyr-Avenue/browse_thread/thread/bcc9bd0256601a33/?hl=en#
I don't think there is anything in it relating to your question. But as you get to the S3 episode where Kendall has kidnapped Syd and explains to her on the jet what happened to her while she was missing, see if he says how long it is before she contacted him and insisted on seeing Vaughn, and saw him with Lauren. I think it was around 6 weeks, could have been longer (6 months, maybe- someone help me out on this. You guys all just finished S3). And she wasn't missing a full 2 years; more like 22 months. So, the time between when she dissappeared and Vaughn became involved with and married Lauren is even shorter than you thought.
Now, Syd didn't tell anyone but Kendall that she was alive because after seeing Vaughn with Lauren she agreed to stay inside the Covenant so CIA could get intel on them from her. Dixon was the only other one who knew she was alive because of the danger to Syd.
Thanks Uncle!!! Now I remember the deep cover and that Dixon knew. Can't wait to get the box set so I can get my facts straight when questions come up!!! I'll drop the Vaughn moving on thing. There's not a lot more to say - he's a bit of a dog. I still love his character though.
Very nice Kellie- you ideas about Sydney taking some of the blame for what happened to her. She decided to stay undercover because she knew the Covenant would kill him. She knew that any attempt to come back would thwart the CIA's plans to leanr more about the Covenant. Sydney always chooses country before herself- and this was just another instance of that. She has to protect millions and if it meant letting Vaughn go, then she was going to do it. I am sure she regretted it after she came back and found out he was married, but she did the right thing all in all. It lead her to Nadia and back to Vaughn. Everything connects.
Hmmm...I would have to say that actually I loved the fact that Rambaldi played such a huge role in ALIAS. There are plenty of soap operas on the air right now if you want relationships, etc. The sci-fi-spy was why I thought ALIAS was so great!
Paul
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