Tuesday, May 23, 2006

To Speak Ill of the Dead

What I am about to say may be rather upsetting for some of you. I have been very loyal to Alias and ABC, and have been very adamant about keeping the blog positive and intelligent. However, I do not feel that Alias and ABC fulfilled their prophecy. What I experienced for 2 hours tonight was not Alias and I was surprised to read the many comments about "satisfaction" and "happy ending."

I have decided not to post as of yet. I am still in the process of evaluating the show I just watched and it would be unfair of me to approach the recap while the air is still thick with disappointment. I will say that I am happy for our heroine and her beach front bliss, but I feel that the very foundation of the show (the creativity, the complexity and the completely shocking plot twists), the very factors that attracted us to the program in the first place, where lost and forgotten in the most important episode- the finale.

I understand that everyone is entitled to their opinions and their feelings- especially about Alias and especially here at Let's Talk. If you were left satisfied by the ending, if you cried and felt closure, than perhaps I am jealous. After five years of infatuation with the many jaw-dropping, fist-pumping, 3am DVD marathon moments of Alias, tonight's episode was equivelent to a slow balloon leak. It deflated, and frankly, I did too.

I am going to go to bed now- after Starbucks Mom and I finish eating the contents of her refridgerator. We are sad and disappointed that our favorite show was wittled down to two hours of glorified fluff and feeble attempts to disguise itself as the old Alias. Have no fear- my recap will house all the explaination and support for my feelings.Then we can all cry together and pray for a spin-off.

Love you all- good night.
Your Blogmaster, GS... and Starbucks Mom

PS. Sara and Des, your pics were great! I will post them soon!!


lhaaheim said...

I understand how you feel GS, this was a hard episode to take and I too feel disappointed in some ways but most of all I'm relieved things turned out all right. The second half of the episode was rushed, All the time in the world, needed about another 10-30 minutes of content, call backs and direct question answering to fulfill all of our wishes. Unfortunately ABC wouldn't give that to them and I think all disappointment should be directed towards them. It was obvious they were trying to jam everything in, the show ran longer, commercials were shorter and there was no break between the episodes. I guess the difference between how you feel and how I feel is that instead of being disappointed about the holes and the crazy plot rushing (again first half was classic Alias but second was stuffed in, there was no down time and even that seemed rushed); I am trying to fill them all in with the explanations I do have. Like Bill Vaughn can’t be alive since Irina is truly evil and would have shown no mercy when killing him. Vaughn was right about her all along! He’s right about a lot of things, oops I digressed. Then again it would have been nice to have 30 seconds of closure on him instead of having to infer an explanation.

Anyway I sincerely hope that some deleted scenes are released or that a possible extended version is released (think LOTR), because it feels like much was left out against the wishes of the Alias crew. Again blame ABC! 1-3 more episodes this year would not have killed them! A three hour finale would not have killed them! Anyway if some new things came out I think that would help us out a lot, nothing that would change the outcome of the story or the central plot lines (again think LOTR) but just enough content to put at us ease, give us those calm moments and wrap it up with a bow. That’s what the finale is missing a bow!!! But I’m not going to hold that against everyone at Alias, they did the best they could with the time they had and even Alias the greatest show ever couldn’t overcome it in every way, all disappointment is on ABC!!! Who was it that said we should have lowered our expectations a bit, well I’m going to eat my own words now, maybe you were right, I was too busy being a cheerleader to realize that Alias as a TV show is in our world and time constraints are a real thing that writers/directors/producers can’t always overcome. I still love the ending, and had a great time watching it but I’m ready for the extended edition of the series finale. So here’s hoping JJ pulls a Peter Jackson (yes, LOTR again, I know I’m a dork) and gives us serious fans a little more. That would be a very nice surprise!

What we need more of:

Bill Vaughn, Weiss, Will, Emily, Evil Francie etc.- just touching base with them would have been nice. (I loved the Francie memory though, that was a nice touch! Plus it incorporated Danny which I think is important.) I think it would have made the story more complete.

Vaughn in regards to Jack and Irina, we got good closure on him and Syd especially in the first half and last scene and with Sark but a little more Vaughn would have been great.

Tom- I’m still very confused about this and the whole Cardinal thing and haven’t figured it out yet, however he’s new so I’m not that upset that we don’t have full closure and I like the fact that he died in the end. I didn’t expect that at all!

Dixon- closure could have been a little fuller, didn’t have to be as full as Marshall (wow, he was great) but something personal would have been good, maybe his kids or something.

Rambaldi- Um still trying to figure it all out, I’m hoping someone comes up with some crazy insight that ties it all together because right now it’s lacking a bow and wrapping paper. The only thing I can figure is that the prophecy was about Syd and Irina??? My gosh! They are expecting a lot from us to figure this all out. Maybe that’s the central problem, we know there won’t be anymore shows so we can’t get a handle on what just happened and when Alias mysteries are solved they are generally solved very well and it feels like we have been thrown back into the middle again. Yup! That’s it! We wanted closure but instead we got more Alias craziness!!!

Just for clarification my comments aren’t directed towards you GS, I fully understand your views and respect them and I think you are totally justified this time to be disappointed. So I’m not starting an issue, just sharing my thoughts because I can’t sleep and it saddens me to know that our wonderful blogmaster and possibly many others didn’t have as great a time as I did. Much love to everyone! And great picture choice!

~Liz (who must go to bed now!)

PS: Sorry for the length but my brain is not functioning at a high enough level right now to be super concise.

Desiree said...

I totally understand how you feel about the ending GS. I must admit I was happy with the ending last night just because I was so worried about who was going to die. I love that Syd was going to be able to have a "noraml" family with all of its parental units...but since I went to bed and now have woken up due to a very energetic 10 month old. I have reevaluated how I feel. I too have way too many questions and feelings of "What the...??" Maybe they were allowing for spin off options or whatever.I don't know. I feel a little in limbo. I wasn't necessarily disappointed in the finale and yet, I wasn't happy with it either. This is too complicated. I think that JJ had other ideas but maybe because of time restraints he wasn't able to finish in Alias fashion. So he opted for a sloppy second. I don't know. I am sure Sara and I will rewatch the finale again. I will ramble with her....It will save some blog space for everyone else:)

birdietwoshoes said...

Sigh... I'm so very disappointed. After the first hour, I was very excited 'cause I thought the first hour was really leading into something. But then... I feel completely let down. And confused. Very confused. I thought I might be the only one, but apparantly not.

steph_bristow said...

i'm so glad i'm not the only one who was disapointed. i too was very unsatisfied. the whole time i was thinking how in the world are they going to wrap this up in twenty minutes, well my answer was, they didn't! it's good to know you guys thought the same. i for one got no questions answered in my mind!

Mike1978 said...

I will say this: Series finales never are what they hype up to be. Ihaaheim summed it up - the writers had every little time (thanks to ABC) to cram stuff in so they left a lot of unaswered questions. I guess they tried to please the fans but giving Syd and Vaughn a happy ending. GS - thanks for your honesty; however I am surprised people are reacting this way because we knew there were only 2 episodes left. I guess they are leaving the fans to fill in the plot holes in the final episode? I did like the flashback scenes though. Series finales are just odd (ever see the finale for Twin Peaks; The X-Files; or this year's Charmed). I was hoping Alias would buck that trend but apparently not really. Still to say this was not Alias confuses me because it was - just really rushed.

And the season finale for 24 blew a bigone.

Desiree said...

I think that they should do an interview with JJ and give him a chance to tell his ending to the story. They could put it on the S5 DVD set. Man that would sell like hotcakes...(Who came up with that saying????)
PS Dixons hair was not so great.What was up with that?

Sarafu said...

As a laid in bed last night I was thinking of all the questions that we wanted answered and I felt like I didnt get an answer to most of them. I was wondering if it was stuff I didnt catch and I would come this morning and read all the insightfull stuff that all of you took from the eppy. Alas, that is not the case. JJ has to know more than he put in the episode. He couldnt of put all that stuff out there with no conclusion at least in his head. I mean, little things even like how the #47 has haunted us for 5 years. Thats just one of many things I am wondering now if we will ever know.
I'm a loyal fan but have mixed feelings and LOTS of questions!

momknows said...

I agree GS, last night was NOT the classic Alias that we all love. Rambaldi's designs have always been so precise. How or why then did the fluid in the cavern work to make Slone imortal, when Sydney interrupted the process by pulling out the ball??
This is only one of many issues I had with the show last night.

I felt nothing between Tom and Rachel. Glad he could be the hero though.

Syd and Vaughn's interactions were strange!! It seemed like they were brother and sister or a couple in their 80's who were passionless but comfortable with each other.

Why didn't Jack jump into the Rambaldi "fountain of youth" then kick Slone's butt??!! (he-he)

Even Irina seemed one dimentional.

I didn't dislike everything in the episode-- I thought Jack's char. was pretty true to form. Sark still looking out for no.1-- himself. Marshall and Rachel holding there own with Slone. And Syd and Vaughn livin' at the beach with the cute and 'highly spacially reasoning' capable family. ( I agree that this leaves the door open for additional projects.

Alias had always set such a high standard. I felt like this was the usual tv effort. That's why I was disapointed!! I'll rewatch the epi in a few days-- maybe I'll have a different view point then?

Thanks GS for a wonderful place to talk about Alias!!!!

p.s. what ended up being the tshirt ideas???

jenn256 said...

I agree Sara!! I went to bed last night sort of feeling like a moron because JG said it would "all be explained and wrapped up in a nice little bow". I started to blog some of my questions last night but figuered I would wake up this morning and you all would have very easy answers to things I must have missed, but I guess I don't feel as dumb this morning-which is good for me but disappointing.

I too looked at theh clock and said, "Oh my god, they have less than twenty minutes to wrap up and explain Rambaldi, then get to the beach scene (saw those pics on spoilers).

The one thing I did like was that they never answered whether they were going to go on Dixons mission with him, they left that up for fans to decide. Do we thinnk they stayed a happy safe family, or did they do what they do best and save the world. Who knows, but I never figuered that would be the best paet of the show for me. I am still hoping someone can shed some light on all of my questions, but I dtill don't think I will ever come to LOVE this episode as I have all of the others in the past.

Robetron said...

If you watch LOST at all you will notice that the number 47 is repeatedly used all over the place too. It has nothing to do withthe ALIAS story. It has to do with JJ Abrams' fraternity in college. It's a "shout-out" to his college pals in film school, if I am not mistaken. Its fun to try to catch it when it is used, but it really has not bearing on any of the shows. I'm told by mathmeticians that 47 is the most used random number, and it is also a prime number.

Robetron said...

I am seeing a lot of people who say they have questions that went unanswered, but what are they? Are they really plot holes, or are they just little curiosities that you wished the show had time to address?

The Cardinal was a contact of Tom's when he was involved with the other investigations that distracted him and winded up geting his wife killed. He really had nothing to do with the story. Tom never worked for P5. That whole story line was to let us see that he and Rachel were drawing closer romantically, but that Tom had some very serious intimacy issues due to his past. The secret in his file when he was first introduced was that his wife had been murdered and he was something less than stable because of it.

What else? I agree the end was way-so-too rushed, but at least they didn't close the door without any kind of closure at all. Maybe we can help each other with whatever questions may be linguering?

birdietwoshoes said...

So was Syd the Chosen One? I'm confused. And the Horizon? What was that? Certainly it wasn't that sphere thing? That wouldn't have fit in that package they retrieved from the safety deposit box. And why did Jack even go down in that cave? He was aware enough to see Syd shoot and "kill" Sloane. Why did he even have to go back down there? His death was senseless to me. And Irina shows up for like, the last 20 minutes and is all... It's all about power, I tried to warn you, but I still love you... Whatever. That was a complete letdown!!

faithschild said...

GS -- I'm right there with you. The first half of the finale was great...but when the final ALIAS appeared I couldn't believe that's all there was. Yeah, Syd and Vaughn -- with Isabelle and little Jack -- got their happy ending...and that I'm happy about...but it seemed the last hour really just fell flat. I understand time constraints and all, and even though they tried to tie up all the loose ends, I was disappointed that they smooshed everything in before the end just so they could say they'd gotten everything explained.

I guess I'm just irritated that some of the big players...namely Sloane, Irina, Prophet 5 and Peyton...met such unclimactic endings...while others...Tom and Jack...met rather untimely ones. And I'm still a little confused about the Rambaldi end of things. What part did the amulet play? What did Mt. Subasio reveal to Sloane? What did the amulet have to do w/ regard to the Sphere? Did it hold the everlasting life juice? Or did that come from the red ball the Sphere created in the tomb? And what exactly was the Horizon? And the entire battle was to gain power?! And who was really the Chosen One...Sloane, Irina, or Syd? Aaahhh...I'm still so confused!!!

But there were good moments. I found myself rooting for Tom & Rachel...I was giddy at the kiss and sad at Tom & Rachel's last conversation. :( I loved seeing Kerry, Marshall's wife, back in action and then later finding out that there are several little Flinkmans running around. I will miss Marshall!! I also liked that in the end Rachel decided to stay with the CIA, and that Sark was still out there somewhere. Hmmm...I wouldn't at all object to a Sark-centered spin off. :D

Anyways...I guess I'll just have to rewatch the finale to try to make better sense of it all...good and bad...while hoping that JJ decides to give us a little more on the S5 DVDs to help us cope with the end of ALIAS a little better...

Thank you GS -- and all other bloggers -- for sharing your ideas and theories. I've loved reading and responding. It's been a blast. And I will miss it. 'Til next time...

Sarafu said...

Thanks for clearing up the 47 thing!

pkrm said...

Wow, I have to say that I am actually quite shocked. I'm surprised so few people enjoyed the ending! Were we really expecting ALIAS to be tied up into a nice little bow? When has ALIAS EVER been wrapped up into a nice little bow? GS, I remember you saying in the past how much you loved the way the writers left some things hanging (such as the Ariana Kane episode) "Interesting theory....or not."

I for one was completely and utterly satisfied with the ending! I laughed at Marshall, I cried at the final exchange between Sydney and Jack (you have to admit that was well acted), and I laughed again when Sloane was trapped under a mountain of rock! Sloane beat death, but couldn't beat Jack! Classic!

I am going to have to take the next several days and put my thoughts together and post it on my own blog, they are far too long to do so here. I really feel, however, the mythology and the holes were "fixed" and "explained" rather well. Sydney never did see the beauty of Rambaldi's sky behind Mt. Subasio, and Sloane's quest for immortality was correct and achieved...only to receive what I can only assume was a wish for death! He will have eternity to regret his poor decisions and selfish ambition. Also, Sydney, "the Chosen One" rendered the greatest power unto utter desolation.

Jack faced off with Sloane, Sydney faced off with Irina, Vaughn faced off with Sark, all of them classic battles that have surfaced and resurfaced throughout the series. Rambaldi was right, only this time the good guys came out on top in every battle.

I also loved the flashbacks, especially the flashback of Sydney telling Jack about her job at Credit Dauphine. It was so unbelievably rich in meaning. Truth indeed takes time (although I know that's not what Irina meant, hehe).

I am sincerely hoping your initial disappointment will be chalked up to overhyping the finale in your mind beforehand, and upon rewatching it and catching the subtleties that I feel I did, you will end up as satisfied as I was. Otherwise, I truly feel sorry that ALIAS ended for you with a small pop.

steph_bristow said...

i too was frustrated with the whole syd/irina confrontation. usually the dynamics between them were so entertaining and emotional to watch. last nite it seemed so flat and pointless. what it boiled down to didn't make sense after all she put syd through. i for one was so let down!

jenn256 said...

Paul, I'm very glad you liked the show. but the "Wrapped up in a nice little bow" phrase everyone is referring to came directly from JG when she was doing the talk show circuit last week, those were her exact words. She said that it would "all be explained". However she did say some of us may not be happy about it, and i guess she was right. I was just unhappy about how rushed it felt. It was like they had this list of questions layed out in front of then and said, what's the fastest way we can answer these questions in a hour and thirty five minute time frame?

You are right, there were some funny moments, and the acting with JG and VG when she said good-bye was great, and that must have been hard for hem to do, but the rest just seemed less than up to Alias standards to me. But this is why the blog is great. tell us more of what you loved so much about it, maybe there are things we all missed and need clarification on, because I personally have more questions at the end of the show than when it started.

birdietwoshoes said...

Thanks Steph, for agreeing. I expected Irina to die, but not like that. Yes, their dynamics usually are so emotional and it really did seem flat and pointless. I would have thought that they would have taken more time with that.

katybird27 said...

Ever since the beginning of season 4, when Alias seemed to drop the ball on everything season three was leading to, I've been cautious of letting Alias in and prepared to be disappointed. I even read an interview with Carl Lumbly (Dixon) giving the series finale an 80%. So I was prepared for the worst, and I must say that the finale actually surprised me! Perhaps it helped that I re-watched the pilot episode before (the best hour on television, hands down!), which put the series in perspective. We know what Rambaldi's end game was (eternal life). We know what we've always suspected -- Irina is driven by power, and every action she's ever taken toward Sydney has had ulterior motives. Jack sent Sydney to do what he could never do -- destory Irina. He beat Sloane at his own game, and died honorably (if a bit dramatically -- where did he come up with that dynomite vest and how did he know he'd need it?). We know that, with Prophet 5 taken down, Sloane trapped by his own ambition, and Irina dead (with the key to immortality in her hand) Sydney is finally free to take that extended vacation on the beach promised by Vaugn at the end of season two. Yes we have unanswered questions, but what we do know will make the watching the DVDs all the more fun (because we still can't know everything).

Robetron said...

Syd was "the Chosen One" according to Rambaldi, but apparently Rambaldi's prophesies can be thwarted.

The "Horizon" was the sphere. The thing in the safety deposit box was a manuscript that led to the discovery of the sphere. Irena had been working on that offscreen and off radar. The thought that she would trade it for nukes which she would use to blow up Washington and London... well that makes you grit your teeth and say "Okay, for the sake of getting Irena in the last episode, fine."

Jack going into the cave only needs a very minor explanation and any plausable one will do. For me, I suppose that he was near enough to the mouth of the cave to hear Sloane, whome he thought was dead, talking to Nadia. He went to finish the job.

The amulet needed to have the rays of the sun shinning through it in just the right place on Mt Sabasio to reveal how and where to take the Horizon and place it in the right spot in order to have the desired effect. Exactly what would have happened if Syd would have left it alone, we will never know. It simply produced the fluid that gave Sloane back his life and immortality to boot.

Anyone have anything else?

Robetron said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
steph_bristow said...

yeah, it was like they realized they only had 10 minutes left and irina hadn't made an appearance yet so let's throw her into the mix and make her have a lame excuse for why she's tortured sydney for all these years. lol, sorry, still a little bitter! :)

pkrm said...

Perhaps it is my analytical nature (hehe), but I'm curious what was left hanging for you? I've seen a lot of disappointment expressed, but very few questions. I too will not deny the ending felt rushed, but there wasn't a lot of choices for the writers, and I refuse to start a bitter diatribe against ABC. ABC doesn't exist in the world of ALIAS, and as far as the story goes, I still feel it was well done.

As far as people feeling the ending battles were anticlimactic, I must ask what were you expecting? Were you expecting Sydney to turn into Jackie Chan and Irina to turn into Neo and for them both to start doing Matrix moves? Perhaps all you were expecting was a classic fight ala Syd and the Francinator. But you have to ask: What would have satisfied you? If your answer is, "I don't know, but what I saw didn't," isn't it possible nothing would have?

In any case, I'm not trying to start an argument, I sincerely hope I can help you fill in any questions or disappointment you have. ALIAS has been a part of our lives for quite a while, and like I said, I'd hate to see it go out for you like this. :)


PS - Maybe we can make a list of questions, and try to help each other answer them.

Robetron said...

Already on it, Paul.
Glad you're with me.

pkrm said...

Just another quick thought:

Sloane was never after power...he was after immortality. Hence he gladly gave Irina what she wanted in exchange for the Horizon...not realizing that Irina had hired Sark to steal it from him in the end anyway.

Irina was after immortality AND power. This was her end game the entire time. She was involved with Prophet 5 the entire time, and her entire search this entire 5 seasons long was to end up in the position we found her at in the end. She had immortality with the Horizon, and she had Prophet 5's control over the world.

We (being the Americans we are) incorrectly assumed "the greatest power" referred to the USA...kind of arrogant, yes? Irina became the greatest power! Imagine...an immortal being with control over the most powerful 12 nations on the planet. And Sydney rendered the greatest power unto utter desolation.

RUDY said...

What really bother me was that ABC would let us believe that Sydney would leave her father's body down there in that rubble. I don't think so? And so naturally Sloane would have been dug out, too, right? Am I right in this thinking?

pkrm said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
pkrm said...

I don't think so rudy...:)

Remember how Jack died? He had explosives around his body. There is no body anymore. Sydney would never have found it even if she had dug. And the whole point of the ending is that Sloane would be trapped for eternity under those rocks, plenty of time to think about the course of action that led him there.

And lhaaheim, I haven't said anything until now, but I don't understand what questions you could still have about Bill Vaughn? We spent most of ALIAS believing Irina killed him...then Elena tried to make Vaughn believe he was still alive, but that it was a ruse! Irina killed Bill Vaughn years ago, this has been established since Season 4...what more closure could there be?


Dolly1325 said...

I have to say that I wasn't disappointed at all. True, the second episode seemed a little sketchy on details, but all in all, it was a good episode. And a fitting ending to a great show. They couldn't really tell all - that wouldn't be Alias.

At least they left the door open for more later. I would love to see a show about Isabelle

mommer said...

I think the frustrations expressed are because of the relationships shattered. We all want Syd to be happy. We want to believe that good is worth fighting for and will triumph in the end. It's built into us as human persons. In the course of five seasons Syd went through so much with her parents and now there's no more opportunity for those relationships to progress - good or bad. Especially with Jack. For me, any frustration comes from the fact that Jack is dead. Why did he need to die? He and Syd have finally established a close father-daughter relationship this season as Jack was the one who was there for her during her pregnancy. His love for Isabelle brought a humanity to Jack we'd only seen hints of before. A softening, a glimpse of tenderness...Now Izzy has lost a loving grampa. It seems too cruel for Syd to lose him now - how much can one girl take?

But then I thought, Syd has been controlled and haunted by her conflicting feelings regarding her parents most of her life. Perhaps the only way for her to have a normal life was for them to be out of her life. Perhaps the only way for Syd & Vaughn to have a functional, healthy relationship is for Jack and Irina to be out of the picture. Irina because she truly was evil and amoral and irredeemable and she killed Vaughn's dad, and Jack because his influence and psychological control in Syd's life was so profound her loyalty would always be split and no relationship can survive that kind of outside influence.

The frustration is that now there is no more chance for parental relationships to progress and grow - yet "baby Jack" is a sweet tribute and a sign that Syd was able to move on and give her dad the place of honor and love he ultimately earned.

Anonymous said...

Only really disappointed with the last ten minutes.

Now, I would have loved to see some big massive conspiracy by spymom/dad to transform sydney into the prophecy fulfiller and stuff like that, but Dad's motives were ok with me. And the line about "you beat death, but you couldn't beat me." With the smirk. Gotta love that!

But Irina's endgame was "world domination." Eh. And had that whole scene been expanded to maybe 30 minutes with Irina doing a little recap for us in the stands. I think that would have rounded things out nicely.

Also a little disappointed in Prophet 5s demise. Are these guys so dumb as to believe that a call to "hey, let's all meet and I'll give you the Rambaldi stuff" is not some kind of trap? DUH! Disappointing for the 12 most powerful people on the planet.

Anyway, rushing the ending is the only MAJOR complaint I have.

jenn256 said...

paul- I need to apologize, I wasn't intending on starting any "diatribes". I was very serious that we should start some sort of Q & A. I have so many things I don't understand or have questions about. I don't aree with Robotron that I was not going to be satisfied regardless. I was ready and very open minded about it, but when I went to bed and again when I woke up this morning I just had this uneasy feeling. Lets see what GS has tp post about last night, then maybe talk to her about maybe you posting something or we can gather some questions that you and a few others who really enjoyed the show can throw out a some things and we can clear up any questions.

lhaaheim said...

mike- yup most series finale end oddly, like Angel and even the west wing stumbled a bit but they got the key areas in the end. It might just be impossible to have a great finale, in most cases you never want them coming.

jenn- I have a feeling that JG said that based on some scenes that had to be cut in the end to fit into ABC's time constraints. Then again maybe she was just trying to promote the best she could, I mean it's not like Alias has been a bad show it's been great so it deserved a good turnout but ABC failed on giving the finale enough time. I agree that I will probably never love "All the time in the world" but I generally dislike finales anyway simply because they are the end. And you know what really erks me right now, they are brining back 7th Heaven!!! A show that should be ending, it's time, they've said it was ending and then all of a sudden CW says wait more episodes please!?! That's just silly! And we can't even get another hour or two from ABC! Wow I'm really mad at ABC this morning. Plus I've only had 5 hours of sleep so I'm already swinging to the grumpy side. Don’t get me wrong though I’m on the happy side when it comes to the ending overall (see last nights post in the other topic).

Robby- I agree the use of 47 was for humor and "oh gosh there it is again" but some of us wanted an explanation as to why Rambaldi chose it. Maybe he used 47 because he already knew it was the most random number and thus thought it was the most powerful.

Birdie/faith- My other posts sum up your questions better (in the previous article) but I do have some theories: Jack went down to see Sloane because he believed in Rambaldi though unlike Sloane he was not a crazy fanatical follower. I think the whole chosen one prophecy has nothing to do with the passenger I think it has always been about Irina and Syd and the circle they would do great battle over was the horizon (think good vs. evil). Plus I think the horizon could have expanded in shape or something once taken from its original package. Rambaldi did create some very technical things. Or it could have been a manuscript that led Irina to the Horizon as Robby has suggested.

pkrm- If you read the other posts you will find a bunch more people who were for the most part happy about the ending just very sad to see Alias and namely Jack go.

"Jack faced off with Sloane, Sydney faced off with Irina, Vaughn faced off with Sark, all of them classic battles that have surfaced and resurfaced throughout the series. Rambaldi was right, only this time the good guys came out on top in every battle. " - I didn't catch that, thanks for bringing that up!!!

Jenn- Yeah I don't think JG should have made the bow comment! And I think it was probably in regards to the beach scene. I was hoping they could do it but is their really a bow big enough for Alias!?!

Overall I think this episode wasn't as climatic as we all thought it would be. It would have been very difficult to top 5 years of Alias in just one episode. They simply needed more time! I thought they would pull it off and it would be great all around but I guess I was wrong. However I am overall satisfied with the ending and pretty happy about it. You are right Paul nothing could have met everyone's expectations; Alias may just be too good to have a good finale. Add that to the fact that no one wanted it to end and thus some unhappy campers.

Oh Paul I feel I have closure on BV, and he can't still be alive anyway since Irina was evil and was only playing good for her means. I thought she might turn out kind of good in the end but things went the other way and I'm happy with it. Mostly I just wanted some Daddy closure for Vaughn; he seemed a little forgotten in the episode. There could have been a nice seen in APO were Jack says he is glad to have him back or he missed him or something. We would see that they had bonded a bit and then Jack could say that BV would have been proud of him. That's all a nice cute, awwww moment. We needed more of those, especially the last hour!!!

Mommer- I agree there is a lot of frustration over Jack’s death, yet I felt it was fitting. Someone had to die to make us cry and Jack would be the person to create the most tears at death. I expected him to die so while I’m very sad about it and cried my eyes out I guess I’m not bitter about it like some people and I love the idea that Jack was victorious over Sloane after all! It seems fitting that he would be the one to stop him!

srg-alias said...

I'm still not quite sure how to feel...I've been home sick the last two days with a sinus infection, so I don't think my mind is comprehending everything at the moment. I'm hesitant to form an opinion yet, but my initial reaction was "huh...ok". I guess I feel let down as well but I can't quite pinpoint why, I think I need to let this digest a little longer and do some rewatching...

lhaaheim said...

Srg- I think you have the right approach, I'm pretty happy about the episode but even I can't come up with a good list of questions. And my head is still spinning from last night’s emotional roller coaster. Maybe we all just need time to figure things out and let it settle. Hopefully Robby and Paul will come up with a great list of questions and some answers!

However I would encourage people to read last nights posts, most of those came from non-disappointed people and they might help you understand things better or just see a different perspective. Plus there were some good ideas mentioned in there as well.

lhaaheim said...

Yeah I’m all caught up!!! I just wanted to say that I think everyone here is just plain wonderful. It's nice to see that despite our mixed reactions we all just want everyone to be happy and enjoy as well as remember fondly our Alias experience.

mysostis said...

I'm totally with you, GS. This is the biggest let down for me since the end of the Xfiles, the whole thing was a big fat cliché : Sydney ends up on a beach bare feet and pregnant, and Isabelle is a mini Syd, like I didn't see that coming, who gave her the 3-D puzzle ? Honestly, at this point I don't care

Jack died saving his baby girl and also the world, JJ just loves to give us the same *beep* over and over again : he used the exact same plot in Armageddon, did we really need to waste time on a crappy budding romance between the newbies with so many plot holes ? I think not !

on the rehashed plot front, let's talk about Irina : in season 4, she prevented the end of the world and world domination by Sloane and Elena, and in season 5, she wanted world domination with Sloane. In two episodes, maternal instinct and the finale they managed to completely deny everything we've seen regarding Irina for the past, what happened to "your mother would never hurt you", "my love for you and your father was not a contrivance", she searched for nadia for 25 years, and never even mentioned her death, and "truth takes time" was just about power ? This is so lame !
They worked so hard after season 2 to get Lena Olin back on the show, and they rewarded her and the fans by turning Irina at the last minute into a moronic psycho, what a waste of her talent and of an awesome character

I'm really sorry I wasted 5 years on this show, I have a feeling Lena Olin and Victor Garber must be pretty disappointed too, she always said that she thought that Irina was good, and after season 4, she wanted to explore Irina's relationship with Jack, and look what she got, I'm surprised sheeven accepted to shoot this crap of an ending.As for Victor Garber even if he said in the interview with Kistin that he was "at peace" with the finale he must feel cheated too, the ending showed such disrespect for the characters and the fans that it makes me sick, I'm glad I've never watched Lost, because I'm pretty sure it will become crap just like Alias did, I'm never watching anything with JJ name on it, he fooled me once, but I won't let it happen again.

Kiki said...

mysostis- I agree on some of your points, especially about Irina. However, through thick and thin, I am a JJ loyalist first and foremost. Aside, JJ did not write or direct this finale and cannot be held full accountable for the 2 hours. I do agree that he should have had a hand in the finale, as it was the show that made him and Lost, and MI.

jenn256 said...

good point GS- JJ did not have a hand in this show, although indirectly he may have. And for that matter, ABC was not responsible for last nights show either. I keep reading people upset with ABC, they again were not directly responsible either.

Would it have been better if ABC had given the Alias team one more episode to explain things? YES, but it is a business, and ABC is in the business of ratings and money, and because of non-loyal viewers they had neither at the end of last season to continue and made a decision. But they had no writing influence on what happened last night.

pkrm said...

Wow...I guess rather than instantly assume something is a plot hole, I look to see if what we now know can be reconciled with the information we already have.

People were furious with "My name is not Michael Vaughn," too, but with more explanation it is no longer an issue. We can reconcile what we know now with the information we already have.

Irina did not turn into a psycho freak in the final season. She has been that same psycho freak the entire time! She is an expert at manipulating people. We've known better since she walked into the scene at the end of season 1 than to take anything she said at face value, and had that reinforced OVER AND OVER again throughout season 2.

Yes, she shut down Elena, but that was because Elena's plan would have destroyed her own. She wanted the world the way it was so she could take control of it, Elena wanted an apocalypse. Of course she helped take her down.

And in spite of her power hungry ways, Irina DOES love Sydney and Jack. She saved Sydney's baby, and at the end, "In spite of all of this, I really do love you." It was the same for Sloane. He really did love Nadia, however he was too power hungry to stop himself. I believe Irina did love Sydney, but nobody was going to stand in her way. It was her hunger for the power the Horizon offered that ended her life anyway. Sydney didn't kill her.

So in conclusion, I believe the ending can be reconciled with the past. She used everyone for her own purposes, kiling her sister and manipulating Jack and Syd. I don't see a plot hole here.


Anonymous said...

JJ was the one who thought Lauren was a good idea, he was also the one that came up with the Sloane and Irina affair, he is the one that turned Alias into a soap opera. Listening to Jeff Pinker talking about the importance of characters on a drama show, and seeing what they did to the characters last night pisses me off, just like when he said that despite everything they pulled off on Alias, the audience kept coming back,I feel really cheated, and I feel that they gave neither the characters nor the actors the respect they deserved, all the actors seemed off last night, and I don't blame them

lhaaheim said...

Jenn you are right ABC had nothing to do with the writing and directing from last night, that’s on the Alias team. However things would have been better if they had more time. This is a weird example but if an Olympic swimmer has weights tied to his feet there is no way he can win the race even though he may be the greatest swimmer ever. The Alias team, though the greatest group of TV creators just could not make the finale as great as it should have been because they were weighted down by limited time. I know it’s negative but I standing by what I said before, this falls on ABC’s shoulders.

Furthermore I remember news about the Alias team asking for an additional 30 minutes that they didn’t get. What more could they have done? Now that I go back and think of those interviews, especially the one with Carl and Kevin I understand the underlining feeling I had before that things just weren't given enough time to pan out nicely like they usually do on Alias. ABC has had a great year, a lot of their shows are doing well and they have lots of money. Another 30 minutes to an hour would not have hurt them.

lhaaheim said...

Paul, you’re so smart! :-) You always explain things so eloquently and put things into perspective. I’m glad you posted that! It’s true the finale left us with lots of questions but we can answer them if we try hard enough and use what we already know as a guide.

Anonymous/Mysostis- It sounds like you haven’t been happy with Alias for a while now and that’s okay, maybe you should just let it be and move on. :-)

myosotis said...

Of course i will move on Ihaaheim, It's just a TV show, but after all the hype about how the finale would do the show justice,what they considered the ultimate accolade to the fans was just a disappointment, except may be for the vaughn and Sydney fans, but I expected more even from Sydney and Vaughn than the scene on the beach with Sydney bare feet and pregnant and apparently still ready to go on a mission, even if she's swore from day one that she wanted out.

pkrm said...

hehe! I actually hate this song to death, but this post reminded me of it...Shania Twain sings, "And if I change my mind a million times, I want to hear him say, yeah, I like it that way." It drives me crazy, but women are constantly changing their minds!

Season 1 she wants out.
Season 2 she can get out and stays.
Season 3 she wants out.
Season 4 she can get out and stays.
Season 5 she wants out.
Post-finale she can get out and stays!

This seems to fit her pattern actually!!!! hehe! Sorry for being silly, but it is a fact of life we don't always want (or do) what we originally thought we would.


lhaaheim said...

Paul! That was a funny way to bring the truth out! :-D You are absolutely right; things don't always turn out like we plan. Also the speech Syd gave to Sloane when he asked her about becoming a field agent really solidified the fact that this is who Sydney is. She is an agent and will always be it's in her blood! Plus Syd all on her own without Jack's guidance put that puzzle together and started on the spy path. I truly believe Jack continued the Project Christmas stuff just to protect her.

pkrm said...

I don't have anything specifically to add, I just wanted to be comment 47!!!! YEAH!!! :)


Andreas said...

I feel complete satisfaction now after watching the finale. Even though there still are some minor details we never will get the complete answer to, I still feel all the IMPORTANT questions and plots were handled pretty well. The writers did, in my opinion, a good job regarding the circumstances.

I must also agree with Paul and Robby. To everyone who feels let down och dissapointed, what are you dissapointed about? If we overlook the fact that it may have been a bit rushed in the end, which important question did we not get an answer to? I am sorry for all of you who did not enjoy the finale and feel the same satisfction as I do, but I am simply... happy!

Regarding the "Jack killing himself" situation, many of you seem to have missed why he did it. In his exact words: "You've caused my daughter so much pain, I could have prevented it. I won't continue to make that mistake"...

Alias will forever have my eternal love and great respect.


lhaaheim said...

Andreas- I feel pretty much the same as you do, I have questions still and I wish ABC would have given them more time but I'm content and happy with the ending. Hopefully we will get a little more on the DVDs but if we don't that's okay. I love Alias and we finally have some closure, and that alone makes me very happy!