Monday, May 29, 2006

Eternal Life

So, Sloane is caught between a rock and a hard place! His love for Rambaldi and lack of loyalty and love for his family cost him everything- including the enjoyment of eternal life.

Let's trace back Sloane's obsession. It all started with Sloane's position in the Army Corp of Engineers and it's study of Rambaldi's work. After the death of Jacqueline, Sloane found comfort in Rambaldi's words of eternal life. Sloane wanted a life without the pain of losing the people closest to him. However, in his quest for all things Rambaldi, he lost everyone- Emily, Nadia and even the respect of his only remaining family, Jack and Sydney. Irina's quest lost her the same thing- her family. How ironic- that on the quest to protect and enjoy the lives of the people you love for eternity-Sloane and Irina lost all they planned to live for.

Let's talk about this eternal life. Doesn't it seem strange that eternal life wouldn't matter to Sydney? She lost many people in her life- Danny, Emily, Nadia, Vaughn, her father. She's lost just as much, if not more than Sloane and Irina combined and yet she offered no interest in ridding herself of that pain in the future, especially as she continues to live a life of danger in the CIA. What do you suppose keeps her from dousing herself and her family in that red Rambaldi fluid?

What about Dixon? He lost his wife and he has his children to think of. Why was he not interested in Rambaldi's promise of eternal life?

How about Sark? If he was able to get a hold of the eternal life serum, than is it plausible he will still be around causing trouble for Izzy, has it is likely that her family background and her genius will toss her into a life of a spy? (I smell spin-off. David Anders (Sark) and Amy Acker (Peyton) are not yet tied to new work- could they be working on a spin-off???)

What are your thoughts on Rambaldi's eternal life?

PS. We are going to start reading the Alias books. If you have read some of them and would like to help with the recap-please e-mail me. I have yet to read any of them and Jenn is making a list of the assumed order the books were published in so we can start at the beginning. There are 8 books that are published and 4 more have yet to be released. If you think about it, that's 12 more episodes of Alias!! YAHOO!!

41 comments:

lhaaheim said...

Sloane and Irina’s action just prove that you don’t go messing with the natural order of things despite good intentions.

You’ve brought up an interesting question GS, why would Syd refrain from such a “nice gift” as immortality. There’s a lot of ways you can look at this but at its heart I think Syd knows that it’s wrong to manipulate the physical laws of the world. Furthermore immortality is not all it’s cracked up to be. To live through all of time, while exciting would be lonely nonetheless because it would be almost impossible to give immortality to everyone you loved. Furthermore who is Syd or anyone for that matter to decide if someone should live forever? That’s a huge amount of power and no human can resist the corruption that would eventually come from it.

It’s not clear if Syd had a strong faith or believed in heaven (if there is evidence, please share) but like most people I think she would understand that such power does not belong to her, that she has no right to it and that it should be left up to God or the physical laws that govern our earth. Sydney doesn’t believe that death is inherently wrong, everyone has their time and the deaths she mourns are those that came too early. If Nadia had died of natural causes at the age of 90, though sad, it would leave a sense of closure, the ending of a life instead of the ending of a future. At the very least Syd, and Dixon for that matter could see what Rambaldi had done to Sloane, how it turned and changed him into a mad man. I doubt they, despite many motivators, would want to follow in his place.

PS: From my own personal experience: while extending the life of my grandfather would have been great since he died young, does not mean that all life should be extended or that I would want to rid everyone I loved of death. I personally have faith and believe in life after death but aside from that, death is a part of nature’s order and I’m not arrogant or crazy enough to go messing with it. Furthermore while I still feel pain from the death of my grandfather which happened years ago I am at peace with the death of my great grandmother who died not too long ago at the age of 98.

~Liz

Kiki said...

Nice Liz. I too think that Sydney had respect for the natural order. I think she believed that people come into your life for a reason, good, bad, to teach you a lesson. Sydney learned plenty of lessons and I think enjoying the time you have with the people you love in the time you have with them is very important.

I don't think there was any solid mention of Sydney's religious beliefs. The show dealt with so many ideologies and such that I think adding Sydney's religious conflicts would have made the show more confusing. Good points though Liz.

Dark Alias said...

i agree with both ya'll. only evil people would ever want importality because they are greedy and ignorat of death.

yay, i'm glad u took my idea bout the books. I orderd the first book from amazon so it sould be here pretty soon.

Miss Scarlet said...

I think I own almost all of the books. I like the pre-quel ones more.

Kiki said...

ooh Scarlet, you'e read the prequels? Cool, what are they called?

Dark Alias said...

heres a list of books in order.

Recruited - Lynn Mason (2002)
A Secret Life - Laura Peyton Roberts (2003)
Disappeared - Lynn Mason (2003)
Sister Spy - Laura Peyton Roberts (2003)
The Pursuit - Elizabeth Skurnick (2003)
Close Quarters - Emma Harrison (2003)
Father Figure - Laura Peyton Roberts (2003)
Free Fall - Christa Roberts (2004)
Infiltration - Breen Frazier (2004)
Vanishing Act - Sean Gerace (2004)
Skin Deep - Cathy Hapka (2004)
Shadowed - Elizabeth Skurnick (2004)

and a list of the apo series:

Two of a Kind? - Greg Cox (April 26, 2005)
Faina - Rudy Gaborno, Chris Hollier (April 26, 2005)
Collateral Damage - Pierce Askegren (June 28, 2005)
Replaced - Emma Harrison (July 26, 2005)
The Road Not Taken - Greg Cox (October 4, 2005)
Vigilance - Paul Ruditis (December 6, 2005)
Strategic Reserve - Christina F. York (March 7, 2006)
Once Lost - Kirsten Beyer (April 25, 2006)
Namesakes - Greg Cox (July 11, 2006)
Old Friends - Steven Hanna (September, 2006)
The Ghost - Brian Studlet (November, 2006)
A Touch of Death - Christina York (December 2006)
Mind Games Paul Ruditis - (December 2006)

Anonymous said...

The finale left us with the impression that Sydney is unaware of Sloane's speedy recovery from the long overdue shooting she inflicted on him. It seems that only Jack understood the importance of Sloane falling bass ackwards into the Rambaldi soup. As far as Syd, Vaughn, and Sark were concerned, Sloane died on the spot. Unless the site was excavated in search of Jack's ventilated remains, immortality may remain Sloane's secret. Having said that, I don't believe (don't want to believe) that Sydney's sense of morality would allow her to seek immortality for herself or the people she cares about. With immortality, she would never see her father again, not to mention Francie or Danny. Never ever.

Kiki said...

Good point Anonymous- Sydney believes too much in relationships with people not to ever see them again.

lhaaheim said...

The year end TV ratings came out and sadly Alias came in at 90 out of 156! :-( However I liked to point out some shows that did worse then Alias, they might surprise you.

Scrubs, Trading Spouses, That 70’s show, The OC!!!, King of the Hill, 7th Heaven (why the hell are they bring it back?), America’s Next Top Model, Smallville, Gilmore Girls, Everybody Hates Chris, Beauty and the Geek, Arrested Development, Malcolm in the Middle, Supernatural, Everwood, Charmed, Reba, Girlfriends, One Tree Hill!!!, Veronica Mars!!!, all of these shows had less viewer-ship then Alias. Maybe ABC needs to lower their standards a bit! :-D

lhaaheim said...

Anonymous- Great point!!! It would end all possibility of an after life for Syd and an after life with all her loved ones for that matter. I wonder if Sloane was so obsessed about eternal life because he knew what was waiting for him when he died. No matter what you believe, it couldn’t be good. I’m pretty sure that without the Rambaldi juice Sloane would be in h-e-double hockey sticks!

PS: Jack could have left a note for Syd or the medical team to left them know he thought Sloane was still alive and what he planned to do if it were true.

Kiki said...

Right, how do we know Jack didn't leave a note....good point Lhaaheim

Robetron said...

Not to be overly gruesome or anything, but just suppose some of Jack's remains landed in the Rambaldi-fluid, and suppose that it is powerful enough to reinvigorate even the smallest bits. We may see Mr. Bristow again, if only in our own fan-fiction.
-R.

darkalias47 said...

haha, awsome Robetron. that'd be great.

Robetron said...

sorry about the repeat posts... internet delays and an impatient clicker finger

lhaaheim said...

*shiver* As much as I love Jack I wouldn't want him alive and immortal. Nor would I want him stuck down there with Sloane! Cool idea though Robby, gross, but cool.

Starbucks Mom said...

I think Syd is too common sense to want eternal life. Sane people realize that eternal life is not necessarily a gift. Remember "The Rose"? He didn't get eteranl life, just a prototype that extended his life, and look how miserable he was. Granted, he was imprisoned, but still. Plus, Sloane and Irina wanted eternal life to gain power and money by using Prophet 5's assets, Syd and Dixon wanted neither of those. They just wanted to be happy.
When you think about it, isn't eternal life the greatest level of power you can achieve? Or can you eventually be killed? Do we know that? If Sloane got shot again ever, would he have to douse himself in the red goo? I'll stop...I'm rambling.

lhaaheim said...

starbucks mom - I totally agree that immortality is an ultimate power. It "sort of" puts you at god status, at least comparable to mythological gods. Furthermore if immortality is obtainable by man, if we can overcome death then should we be able to overcome immortality? So someone in the future just needs to figure out how to overcome it or reverse it and send Sloane to hell. Maybe Izzy and Jack Jr. could?

Kiki said...

Jack Jr. = JJ. How interesting.

Anonymous said...

Sydney has a different relationship with death than do Sloane and Irina. Sydney is willing to risk death in order to preserve the principles of love and friendship, honour and integrity. In a heartbeat, Sloane and Irina are willing to sacrifice those same principles in order to cheat death. Sydney doesn't fear death. I'm sure she is not anxious to experience it, but she is more determined to live well than to live forever. Sloane and Irina just don't get it. Sydney gets it.

Robetron said...

Excellent analysis, Anonymous. You've ferreted out the antithesis of what makes these characters tick, what motivates them. Well done.

srg-alias said...

Anon made a good point that Sydney might not know that the Rambaldi immortality fluid actually worked. Irena told Syd that she always underestimated Rambaldi while we saw Sloane rising from the red pool, but Irena never actually said what the ultimate power was while the audience knew it was immortality.

On a personal note, I've never understood why eternal life would be such a gift. You'd see everyone around you that you've ever loved die, it seems like it would be a very lonely and tiring existance. Just my 2 cents...reminds me of the end of The Green Mile.

Kiki said...

Bravo Anon!! You should definitely sign up and let us know your name!!

Anonymous said...

GS, are there any other Alias-books then the prequels and the apo series? Im on book nr.9, Infiltration, and I can tell you, they has almost nothing to do with the Alias series. Which books are you talking about? Or is it these prequels and apo? / 2T

jenn256 said...

anon- seems you are reading the prequel series, and then APO takes over from there. I have read 2 APO series books and they are pretty good. I don't know what teh prequels are like but the APO series, it's almost like reading from an Alias script. I think GS figured it would be best to start from the beginning and move on from there.

There are currently 8 books released in the APO serires, with 5 others scheduled to be released from July to December 2006.

Daniel said...

Apologies for recycling part of a previous comments (from the ep 17 post and others) but I belive its pertinent to the whole immortality arc and Rambaldi overall and might tickle some peoples imaginations...

My main contention is that Sloane is left trapped by a sequence of events Rambaldi indirectly manipulated, mainly becuase Sloane is the source of his prophecies and the immortality theorum which he re-invents from Sloane's altered genetic state or the crypt itself:

To understand the ends (immortality) you have to understand the means (the prophecies) to getting there

The Prophecies
Considering how context specific they were. Rambaldi either had to be present when they happend, met the participants later or learned them from somebody who was mostly likely the immortal Sloane.

Given how Sloane was groomed to follow his quest to become immortal by Conrad, the hidden message on page 47, the sunrise over Subasio etc. Sloane falls through glass with Nadia for the Sphere of Life, Nadia falls through a glass table, Irina through a window these parallels especially indicate some kind of ironic hindsight. Rambaldi even goes as far as writing Irina's name on one important box, prefiguring his knowledge of her ultimate ambitions. It has to be Sloane, and/or perhaps Sydney who passes on some of this knowledge.

Otherwise the entire series makes no sense whatsoever!!! You can argue about the smaller details till the world ends. The main problem is still Rambaldi's prophecies! If you can't rationalise/reconcile Rambaldi's prophecies logically somehow the show doesn't work on any levels except a purely abstract level of profoundly illogical and incoherent entertainment!;)

Buried alive for Eternity ?
Within the world of Alias, we all know interest and lust for Rambaldi’s devices and prophecies will never die. Some time in the near or distant future some Rambaldi enthusiast will eventually unearth/excavate Rambaldi’s tomb and find Sloane. Perhaps, after having the opportunity of having many years to ponder and have genuine remorse for his many crimes he becomes a penitent and almost mystical Sloane, like the old knight in the finale of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, or just simply a deranged one who will meet the man who will become Rambaldi and impart his very specific and unique knowledge of the prophecies. Making Sloane a gibbering evil loon upon excavation would make no sense and cheapen Jack's death. Jack sacrificed his life to stop Sloane and give him the chance to ponder his mistakes and sins for a very long time alone and in the dark... This said, Sloane being as clever as he is would expect eventually for somebody to excavate the tomb. Question is would he be sane/or penitent when that day long in the future arrives.

The futuristic Aspects of Rambaldi's Creations and the Immortal Sloane
Remember that all of Rambaldi’s innovations such as the Horizon, Big Red Ball, silly green goop, The Double Helix, the Gene map in the 5th prophet, and De Regno Heart to name but a few are very, very advanced by modern technological standards ;) Perhaps the person who became Rambaldi, intrigued by Sloane studies and reverse engineers the effects of Sloane’s Immortality to create the basis of the knowledge which constituted the 5th Prophet document and the double helix crap. Obviously this individual who is probably the only person clever enough anywhere to do this would have to have an accident/experiment/plot device which would send them back in time to begin the end of the cycle/circle, perhaps to stop nefarious types in his near-future time from acquiring his secrets! If Rambaldi can discover immortality in the World of Alias, is time travel any less plausible?

Back in the past Rambaldi would be aware that they would need create and facilitate all manner of artefacts to have the events involving Sydney that led to Sloane’s eventual entrapment and Irina’s defeat to occur. Thereby completing the referred to 'circle' which creates the prevailing context for the rise of Rambaldi.

Rambaldi's eventual ambivalence towards Immortality
Interestingly, Rambaldi although allowing his allies such as the clockmaker, the Rose, and even perhaps Kill Bill Conrad extended life to facilitate their roles in his/Sloane’s prophecies regarding Sydney did not choose immortality himself. Probably being aware of and regretting the dire consequences it had on Sloane and Sydney’s lives and potentially the whole of humanity.

The Rose guy in episode 15 strongly suggested that Rambaldi considered his discovery and quest for immortality a massive mistake, but was adamant in his conversation with Sydney that nothing could prevent from happening the abomination against nature/God which ‘The 12’ and more significantly Sloane achieved via immortality. This hypothesis indicates Rambaldi knew Sloane would become immortal regardless of whatever happened. This indicates in itself hindsight or an acquaintance with Sloane in the future, as only Jack knows for certain that Sloane was now immortal. However, Jack helpfully gave him all the time in the world to ponder his sins and suffer for them. Jack sacrifices his life to give Sloane the chance to ponder his mistakes and sins for a very long time.

In a nutshell: Rambaldi's Endgame arguably is to make Sloane immortal within a much bigger picture and make him atone for his sins.Arguably so that he can meet him in the future, reverse engineer his secrets and and then somehow hide them and himself in the past. And lets be fair Rambaldi via his prophecies and Conrad has subtly manipulated, the willing, Sloane most of his adult life. This in effect creates a closed loop or timeframe. If Sloane didn't become immortal as The Rose predicted the whole circle/cycle would have been broken creating a temporal paradox.

As much as Rambaldi may hate his 'invention' he had to ensure it goes back into the past to create a self fulfilling prophecy via Sloane.

If anything this scenario/hypothesis or any variation of it indicates the story isn't over. Perhaps with Sydney's brilliant daughter eventually in the picture we'll get some clearer answers in the future. If JJ announced an Alias movie/sequel with JG onboard Alias just wouldn't be Alias without a Rambaldi component. Especially if she has to one more artifact/puzzle to solve...

Kiki said...

Nice Daniel! You are right, it wouldn't be Alias without Rambaldi.

uncle111 said...

Girlscout said...
Right, how do we know Jack didn't leave a note....good point Lhaaheim

8:00 PM


Robetron said...
Not to be overly gruesome or anything, but just suppose some of Jack's remains landed in the Rambaldi-fluid, and suppose that it is powerful enough to reinvigorate even the smallest bits. We may see Mr. Bristow again, if only in our own fan-fiction.
-R.

Come on guys:)
Or, what if we end up finally seeing a comprehensive Rambaldi mythology, something the writers never bothered to give us.

pkrm said...

Just my 2 cents...I don't believe any of the people mentioned besides Sloane really put any stock in Rambaldi's immortality. They viewed Sloane as a sick sick man who believed in something they felt they had disproved. Jack even admitted at the end he had never given Rambaldi the credit it deserved.

I don't think it's that they didn't want it, they just didn't believe it really existed.

Paul

Kiki said...

Good point Paul, no one besides Sloane and Irina believed in Rambaldi, so naturally only they would believe in eternal life.

Anonymous said...

Hey Paul, while Jack certainly admitted to being skeptical about the Rambaldi immortality angle, he proved the value of keeping an open mind when he hauled his 6'2", 57 year old, bullet riddled, bloodless, oxygen deprived body down that filthy 200 foot underground staircase with his trusty suicide bomber kit at the ready....just in case. We wouldn't have thought any less of the man if he had simply kept the pressure on that wound (as Sydney instructed) and waited for the medivac team. The CIA lost a good man (although the ABC episode guide, not to mention the script itself, mentions nothing of Jack dying) I for one, await the "proof". Bring on the movie.

Robetron said...

Daniel,
This is the only problem I have with your time travel theory:

"Considering how context specific they were. Rambaldi either had to be present when they happend, met the participants later or learned them from somebody who was mostly likely the immortal Sloane."

This is not necessarily true. "Prophesies" that are not context and detail specific are simply the ambiguous guesses of an average man. If Rambaldi were indeed a "prophet" by the strict real-world meaning of the term, he received his information by means of visions and was guided by the hand of a greater power to accurately write down what he saw without flaw. (This is why I also had such a problem with the wording of some of his so-called prophesies; but I digress.)

If they were divinely revealed messages (in the pretend Alias-world), then the prophesies could not EVER be prevented from coming to pass. Sydney seemed to thwart the prophesies, and yet, somehow other details would still come to pass (like "stars would fall from the sky"). Again, this is a strange take on prophesy and fulfillment - a liberty the writers have taken for the sake of the story.

If they can take such liberties for the sake of the story, they have no need for a time traveling self-styled "prophet" who manipulates a time loop against Arvin Sloane.

We can play around all day with the meaning and uses of terms and make them what we want for a fictional show, but in the end, the real meanings of the terms in the real world retain their true definitions. Outside of which, they have no actual usfulness.

Therefore, Rambaldi is a farce, but he made for a great fictional show if we can let suspend our disbelief for the 42 minutes per episode in which his "influence" appears.

Robetron said...

We were all able to do that for at least three years. We began hoping for some substantial answers in the 4th year, and in the 5th year, we were promised them. Our anxiety and anticipation grew to outrageous porportions, but in the end, the last episode, they just didn't get the job done.

(I watched it again today, and I just had to give the writers and directors a mental slap once again.)

lhaaheim said...

Damn right Anonymous!!!

Good points Robby but since the Alias writers haven’t given us all the answers and they may never for that matter I think it’s safe for us to believe in any theory that suites our fancy. So I choose to believe both you and Daniel because my brain is hurting from all this time travel talk, though it is amazing and I’m too lazy to make up my own theory about Rambaldi. Furthermore I can’t seem to get myself to watch the finale again; every time I do I stop! It’s just too sad!!!

However I do have a theory about Rambaldi’s symbol <0>, since I don’t believe a word that Irina has said these past few years I’m not sure anymore that it’s about the chosen one and the passenger. I think it has a greater meaning representing the battle between good and evil and how at times the whole world can hang in its balance. If Syd hadn’t stopped Irina I’m almost certain she would have done great damage to the world and knowing her she wouldn’t stop until she was dead. Additionally according to Rambaldi Syd was the only one who could “render the greatest power unto utter desolation”, which would be Irina and Sloane. Syd took care of Irina and Jack disabled Sloane for a while at least. Syd or Izzy with have to take care of him once and for all at some point.

The following is on Wikipedia and I thought it was so good that I just had to share it!

The prophecy applied to the Alias storyline: "This woman here depicted will possess unseen marks. Signs that she will be the one to bring forth my works. Bind them with fury, a burning anger unless prevented at vulgar cost this woman will render the greatest power unto utter desolation."

Sydney possessed unseen marks in her gift for three dimensional problem solving, which may fulfill the spirit of the prophecy. The letter is fulfilled by three actual physical anomalies mentioned by Rambaldi that Sydney possessed: DNA sequencing; platelet levels; and the size of her heart. At SD-6 she was directly responsible for bringing forth the works of Rambaldi by collecting them for both SD-6 and the CIA. Jump to the series finale where the culmination of collecting the Rambaldi artifacts (binding Rambaldi's works) has led Arvin Sloane and Sydney in a face-off. After Jack Bristow is shot by Arvin Sloane, Sydney displays a burning anger by brutally shooting Arvin Sloane.

This sequence of events triggers "the greatest power" storyline. The greatest power which Sloane and Irina Derevko are both seeking is that of immortality. The greatest power is rendered unto utter desolation because it is forever lost. Arvin is trapped forever in Rambaldi's tomb under rock and Derevko dies while trying to retrieve the last remains of the greatest power contained within the Horizon device. Sydney unfortunately had pretense in climbing the Mt. Subasio in an effort to disprove she was the Chosen One. In the end, Rambaldi accurately predicted that Sydney would ensure his greatest work of immortality would never be used again.

However, in the series finale Sydney and Sloane go inside a cave in Mt Subasio, Sloane is in possession of a Rambaldi artifact (a necklace), moments later the sun rises and shines through a hole in the cave's wall, when the rays of sunshine hit the necklace it reflects something in the wall, but before Sydney is able to look what it is, Slone shoots the ground around her and she falls... by doing this the prophecy is fulfilled: "never having seen the beauty of my sky behind Mt. Subasio"... with "the beauty of my sky" he referred to what the sunrays would reveal, and "behind Mt Subasio" meant inside the cave.

Kiki said...

AWESOME LHAAHEIM!! You are right!! Sydney never say the beauty of that particular sky! Great connections! I am with you all on this prophecy thing!!

Daniel said...

Robetron

"We can play around all day with the meaning and uses of terms and make them what we want for a fictional show, but in the end, the real meanings of the terms in the real world retain their true definitions. Outside of which, they have no actual usfulness.

Therefore, Rambaldi is a farce, but he made for a great fictional show if we can let suspend our disbelief for the 42 minute"

Yes, especially the last paragraph whereyour effectively repeating a point I made in a previous comments. If you can't explain Rambaldi's prophecies rationally you can't explain the show at all.

"This is not necessarily true. "Prophesies" that are not context and detail specific are simply the ambiguous guesses of an average man. If Rambaldi were indeed a "prophet" by the strict real-world meaning of the term, he received his information by means of visions and was guided by the hand of a greater power to accurately write down what he saw without flaw."

Yes, but this is akin to Rambaldi having a crystal ball or a massive cosmic spliff to rationalise his prophecies. Time travel is far more likely than something as magical as "sooper powahs" and easier to sell to an audience. 'Sooper Powahs' and psychic visions take a greater leap of faith than mere time travel, as hackneyed as the latter is. Robetron, I get the point your making I'm just saying its a massive leap of faith for most casual viewers to take in.

"This is not necessarily true. "Prophesies" that are not context and detail specific are simply the ambiguous guesses of an average man."

My Sloane hypothesis is just that an hypothesis. However:

Mount Subasio: Sydney never sees the sunrise within the context of Rambaldi/Sloane endgame. She does naturally thanks to Jack earlier in the series. Coincidence ? How much more context specific can you get for a prophecy???????? ;)

The Horse in Savogda: Rambaldi prophecises this ? How?

I'm sorry I could go on and on. My bottom line is Rambaldi was either present at these events, had access to witnesses or records of them. Thats a rationale way of explaining it. Psychic seer like visions of immortality and mobile phones isn't or very credible in narrative terms.

Remember we see Rambaldi but never his face in one early. What was the point in narrative terms? I contend they did this either because:

1 was he mystery who was never going to be solved from the get-go (yet why show him ?)
or
2 one of the cast or a regular guest actor would/will become him later.

US shows work on the principle of 'Chekhov's Gun' never introduce something you haven't already prefigured in the story. Could the nature/identity of Rambaldi be one massive misfiring Chekhov's Gun? or will his story be completed in a sequel someway down the line?

Robetron said...

You may argue persuasively that your version of the story is more literarily marketable, but the writers of the show positioned Rambaldi before us as a "prophet." He either is, or is not a prophet, and the authority of the script writers say he was one.

Yes, maybe it is tiresome to accept the story as it is, because as it is remains flawed. I can see why it is tempting to try to rationalize the story into making sense. Unfortunately, we cannot change the way things were written. To be a "prophet" is specificly defined, and creative as you may be, it does not mean "time traveler."

Anonymous said...

Speaking of Eternal Life, we Alias fans may need to go for a swim in the old Rambaldi pool ourselves. The average length of time between the Series Finale and the Big Screen revival of these TV beauties (Starsky & Hutch, Bewitched, Dallas, Miami Vice, Dukes of Hazzard)is,or will be (since 2 of these works of art have yet to grace a theatre near you)in excess of 22 years. I'm gonna start working out and eating right tomorrow 'cuz I want to be in the front row in the summer of 2028(with my hearing aid jacked), when the lights dim, giving way to the warm glow of the silver screen, and a business-like voice says "Prevously on Alias".

Daniel said...

Robetron

I appreciate where you coming from but your own definition of the term 'Prophet' as you explain it is very literal.

A time traveller can still be a prophet by implication, given the plurality of definitions and rationales one could ascribe to a prophet of Rambalbi's futuristic and weird nature.

Daniel said...

Anonymous

I'd give it 5-10 years myself! :) 22 years is far too long :(

uncle111 said...

Well, this thread is so old in blog years that it may never be read, but try this on for size:
Irina may have made up or just been wrong with things she was quoting as Rambaldi prophecies. And, there may be someone out there, alive in these times, who was forging prophecies based on his current knowledge and passing them off as Rambaldi writings, either for money, or more likely, to influence events. I don't think it was Sloane, but I could see Sloane doing something like this.

As for eternal life- I'd like to make a distinction between eternal life and immortality. Eternal life is more of an all encompassing thing that has it's rots in religion. It refers to a state of being eternally alive in some conscious form, and in a state of total enjoyment and well being.

Immortality simply means living forever, no guarantees as to what things are like- you just don't die- ala, Sloane living for eternity under a boulder, not with Nadia.

Sloane's goal was eternal life, but what he achieved was immortality. Immortality may be achieved through science, but eternal life can only be given by God. Rambaldi believed we would someday know God through science, or so Sloane told us, a belief in eternal life or immortality, or an attempt to merge the two?

lhaaheim said...

Daniel, Robby, Uncle-

You boys are so smart! I think all of your views and theories have merit and true possibility in the world of Alias. While I completely understand Robby’s view of a prophet, I am at the same time compelled by Daniel’s time travel theory. This also runs in line with Uncle’s theory, that Sloane and the other Rambaldi followers were perusing science and not faith or religion (even though it masked itself as that sometimes). That would mean Rambaldi was an enlightened man of science and not a true prophet. Uncle, I especially agree with your comparison of eternal life and immortality and the definite difference between the two.

I think there is some middle ground between your theories so here is my attempt at it: Rambaldi was a man of science, one of such great power and esteem that he reached the title of prophet even though it was not technically deserved since he gained knowledge of past present and future through science and not from divine power. Yet his followers labeled him as such anyway and while some believed in Rambaldi as faith, and others just as a means of power and technological advancement, the prior eventually found out (Sloane) that Rambaldi was not a man of faith after all, when all they were granted was immortality and not eternal life.