Friday, March 31, 2006

My brain hurts again...

Brace yourselves, there is a lot to take in here...have fun!

Horizon. A person, a place, a thing? When it comes to Alias, Horizon could be anything. The true question is, how is Horizon related to SD-6? Sydney is kidnapped by DiSantis and put under hypnosis in order for her mother to find the location of Horizon. While under the power of several hallucinogenic drugs (not baby-harmful) Sydney is led back to her blood van days with Vaughn, as he rolls out the SD-6 map and shows Sydney the complexity that will be her life in the following years.

It is my impression that the purpose of the Alliance and the SD cells was to find and procure all of Rambaldi’s works. SD-6 was very successful, one because of Sydney Bristow and two, because Sydney Bristow and Arvin Sloane (as Nadia’s father) both play a part in Rambaldi’s grand plan. The only connection I can make is that Horizon is Rambaldi related and that is why its whereabouts was to be found on the Alliance map. Remember that there are 11 other SD cells that we know nothing about. The map was of all the SD cells and how they were allied with SD-6, who their suppliers were, who their leaders were and how far each cell might have reached into government agencies and such. Though it’s possible that Horizon could be linked to another SD cell, it makes the most sense that it has something to do with SD-6.

As discovered in the first half of season 5, P5 is made up of 12 cells, all of which have infiltrated 12 government agencies. Is it possible- related to KatyBird’s theory- that APO is one of those government agencies? Is it possible that the CIA has been penetrated by the anonymous group that killed Vaughn, kidnapped Sydney and is blackmailing Sloane?

Furthermore, we have to look at the characters that are also linked to P5. Sloane and Irina’s alliances have always been unknown. Their loyalties lie with themselves, their hidden agendas and to protect their children- we can hardly make any assumptions or theories in regards to their involvement, as it is likely to surprise us. What I do want to know is- did both Irina and Sloane know that their affair would produce the Passenger? Was Irina aware that her children are part of the prophecy when they were born? I suppose another question would be- has Irina seen Mt. Sabacio?

Also, it seems rather odd to me that Sloane would enter into a 30 year obsession with Rambaldi only to discover years later that he plays some part in it. His explanation is this: He and Emily lost a daughter. At the time he was studying Rambaldi manuscripts and in the writing he found comfort and hope. He then went on to research and explore Rambaldi’s work. It was my understanding that Jack and Sloane went rogue from the CIA, and Sloane entered into contract with the Alliance, to lead SD-6. Sloane recruited Jack, who would play double-agent and then later recruited Sydney. Come to find that Sydney Bristow is the Chosen One depicted in Rambaldi’s word. Too convenient, too coincidental.

Moreover, if Irina’s BIG agenda is connected to Rambaldi as well (as she seems to be front and center, hence her name on the box) then why has she spent so many years away from her daughters, the Chosen One and the Passenger? Irina is wise in all things Rambaldi, that is why Elena needed her to assemble the large Mueller, Irina had to have known all along that any child she bore would be somehow associated with the 15th century prophet.

These are just a few thoughts to mull over this weekend. What do you think? What is Horizon? Do you think it is Rambaldi related? What connections can you make between Horizon and SD-6? What about Sloane and Irina? What do they know that we don’t?


birdietwoshoes said...

Somehow I have to think that Horizon is connected with Rambaldi. I mean, the whole show from the beginning has had to do with Rambaldi. And I still think that Irina is the Chosen One. Seems almost like a letdown to NOT have Syd be the Chosen One, since she is the main character. But then again, when and if (hopefully WHEN) everything is revealed and made known, it will all make sense. I wonder how many things we'll still have questions about. I like the theory that since P5 has their hands in 12 government agencies, APO might be one of them. But I just don't know. All I know is that I saw Will, Vaughn and Irina in the awesome preview the other night and I cannot wait!!!

srg-alias said...

Yes I got to see the promo too birdie when I watched my recorded Lost last night, very exciting! :)

Your article title cracks me up GS, seriously thinking about all of this could give you a migraine! Regarding the Horizon, I'm hoping it has to do w/ Rambaldi so maybe we can get some closure with his whole legacy. Knowing it was listed as some kind of number on the Alliance map leads me to believe it's part of an SD cell or maybe a contact. It was listed in the upper right corner which makes me think it's a distant connection to the Alliance like an arms dealer or informant...

amy said...

i'm still thinking that they tried to close up the whole loop on rambaldi at the end of season 4 (and as for mt. sebacio that might be a plothole because irina was talking to syd about being the chosen one to stop the whole end of the world plan with the red ball)
of course rambaldi could come back - and hopefully they will tie up some loose ends...i saw some spoiler pics on - nothing too exciting but still cool!!!

Anonymous said...

GS, I don't think that the sole purpose of the Alliance & the SD cells was to find and procure all of Rambaldi's works. I just finished re-watching season 1 and they mentioned that the Alliance is in the business of trading arms and intel world-wide. I think it became SD-6's main purpose since it was headed up by Sloane, somebody completely obsessed with the prophet. And I agree with SRG, I think Horizon must be one of the Alliance's dealers or informants that was known to the CIA (or only to Vaughn), that's why it was on the map...

Eliza said...

okay, help me out...
what was the significance of irina's name being on that box? what was in the box or what did the box do?
I think the horizon is a thing...they seemed to be referring to it as a 'thing' and not a person. My guess is that the rambaldi story will continue throughout the season as it always has. It has been the unifying thread throughout every season....prophet five definately is linked to rambaldi...well is Alias...who knows! But help me out with the box question! why was that significant? and why did irina think syd was the chosen one? I think irina would know if it was her....but then again...syd did see that mountain...??

Eliza said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

I think everybody thinks Syd's the chosen one because of that drawing of her likeness in the Rambaldi manuscript...I don't remember what the story was behind the box though.

Kiki said...

The box contained something that was threatening to Sydney. Remember Syd and Vaughn went under water to get the keys to open it when they were stopped by Bomani. They went and saw an informant that said the box contained a bio-weapon. But once the box was swiped from the DSR, Bomani opened it and it was the DeRegno Heart. He used it to operate El Tire, the machine that cranked out the DNA of the Passenger. Then they used the computer virus to gather information from hospitals to help locate Nadia. Is it all coming back now? Remember Irina is also a work meaning peace. And if the contents of the box mean peace then that would mean Nadia means peace. Hmmm.

srg-alias said...

It's funny I actually just watched those episodes (The Frame and Unveiled) again last night. Bomani said the "Passenger is Irena's legacy", so maybe that's why Irena's name was on the box since it revealed the identity of the Passenger through the DeRegno Heart and El Dire.

Eliza said...

thanks for the insight, but....
how did the dregno heart (sp) get in the season 1 or 2 it was taken out of a man's chest....right...same heart...that was supposed to mark an apocalyptic event...and that same hour the heart was taken, Sloane heard he had a daughter! so how did the heart get in the box? what am I missing or messing up?
so Irina means "peace" it may be referring to "the way of Rambaldi's plan of world-peace is found through this box"
man alive...I am going to have to watch eveything again.. :)

Kiki said...

Good question. Well, Sark must have known the heart was in the box when he told Dixon he had to trade it for Dixon's daughter. If Sark knew it was in there, it might be possible that it was placed in the box once the heart was recovered. The heart was thought to be a bomb or weapon of some sort, they thought it was the historical event that Rambaldi was talking about, so Sydney and Dixon went on the mission to recover it and Dixon threatened to blow up a bomb (he had been using drugs after his wife's death). It was the episode that ended with Syd and Vaughn eating ice cream in the park. The heart was stolen after that, remember.

uncle111 said...

G/S- Great article, lots of great questions.
Rambaldi was the main undercurrent and motivator for most the Alias story lines from the first episode through the end of season 4. I doubt they were going to switch gears so dramatically as to end the main motivation behind their series.
I think they were trying to set us up for another trademarked head jerking plot twists and bring Rambaldi front and center in a big unexpected way somewhere in the season.
We'll see Rambaldi again.

bamaaliasfan said...

You were telling the brain hurts now!! I love the idea about APO being part of P5. I wish that we knew when Irina started her journey with Rambaldi; it doesnt make sense for her to WANT and PLAN to bring her children into such a wild ride. Irina has broken her kneck to try to save her daughters from this craziness. I don't think she learned about Rambaldi until after she returned to Russia. Like Jack said, Irina didnt have Sydney to keep her from falling into Rambaldi.

Angela said...

I just had a random thought, spurred by the observation that the drugs Syd was given were "not harmful to the baby."

Okay, maybe that's a convenient plot hole, but anyone knows that anything that goes into a mother's body INFLUENCES a baby.

So--could Syd's baby have some sort of special powers or Rambaldi significance because of the drugs she was given? Could this be why Irina was watching so closely? Maybe they don't want to take something from the baby, but do something to it in order to fulfill a Rambaldi prophecy . . .

Hmm. I may be completely off the wall, but I'm wondering . . .


Robetron said...

I can't believe someone else is finally asking the same question: "How did the DiRegno Heart get inside the Irena box?"

Sloane claimed that he put it in there. The keys to the box, however, were hidden in a secret cave at the bottom of the ocean, a location that could only be found by having all three lenses within the "Rambaldi-scope" - something which Sloane never had. Sloane claimed that HE had the box made, but then the rumors about the box had been around for decades if not centuries.

The only way this makes sense is if Sloane IS Rambaldi himself. If so, only he would know how the box opperated, where the keys were located, and the unlikelyhood of someone finding the third lense would ensure that no one else would be able to use the Heart to power El-Dire in order to gain the knowledge of the Passanger. Sloane never wanted anyone else to know; that's for sure.

So, what are the chances that Sloane IS Rambaldi reborn or reencarnated?

Eliza said...

hmm thanks for the insight on the heart...another question, however. The dergeno heart was taken out of that dude's did it get in his chest...was it just prophecy thinger or...does it not really matter? was that alive since the time of Rambaldi...or was he in a line of people who each had to have a transplant to carry this heart...? wow, now I am going to deep for sure!

uncle111 said...

Okay robetron, you pushed my button.He's much more than anyone really ever asked for. Most of this I've posted before in bits and pieces, but this seemed like a good time to bring it all together.

What do we know about Sloane? If we accept what Sloane says to be true, our knowledge of him begins when he meets Conrad while Sloane is with the Corps of Engineers. We know nothing prior to that and we are trusting that even that is true.
Our earliest scenes of him are of him in Italy with Emily (the J memory), where they return after he brings down the Alliance. He knows a lot about various scientific fields. He knows more about Rambaldi than anyone else. He has worked harder than anyone else pursuing Rambaldi. And, on top of his efforts, things about Rambaldi have fallen into his lap.

What if when they thought they killed Rambaldi, his followers used the healing formula or some other invention of his to bring him back and then whatever he used on the clockmaker to keep him alive for centuries. But, what if in the process, say the manner in which they killed him, or the length of time before they could revive him, Rambaldi lost his memory and prophetic ability. What if in the 20th century he was drawn to Rambaldi artifacts, maybe after meeting Conrad. What if Rambaldi knew this is what would happen and he arranged for certain clues and knowledge to be kept safe so that when he had gone through certain events he would be prepared to remember, or at least accept, who he was and begin to bring about his endgame.

What if Arvin Sloane is Rambaldi?

Syd had her memory wiped after leaving the Covenant. She was kidnapped by Kendall and he filled her in on what she had gone during the previous 2 years. She had her memory erased so she would not remember where she hid Rambaldi's DNA. But Kendall pointed out that once she was back at CIA she went straight for the thing she hid and risked everything to forget. She was drawn to it subconsciously.

What if that is why Sloane is so drawn to Rambaldi? What if there is a deep subconscious pull toward recovering his works and hence his memory?

I think Sloane became obsessed with Rambaldi early on. In the 4th season the Sloane Clone stated he (meaning Sloane since he had Sloane's memories) had been collecting Rambaldi artifacts for over 35 years. The faulty timeline inherent to the show messes it up a little, but factoring in Syd's 2 missing years timeline glitch, that would mean Sloane began collecting in 1968 or 1972. I think it was earlier rather than later. If he became obsessed before joining CIA then I say he joined CIA in order to use government resources in his Rambaldi search. Even if he started after coming to CIA the rest still works. I think what got Sloane obsessed was getting access to certain Rambaldi documents that made him think he was part of the prophecies. I think Irina was identified somehow in what Sloane saw and because of that he worked with KGB to recruit Irina. He may also have seen other things that related to Irina's child that gave him a vision for getting Irina here to marry Jack.

Jack joined CIA in 1970 and even though he didn't meet Sloane until 1971 I think Sloane knew of Jack and his work on Project Christmas. He used this or something to do with Rambaldi as bait to get the Russians to recruit Irina and assign her to get close to Jack.

In 1971 Jack and Sloane meet at CIA and become friends.

In 1972 the Prophet 5 project began when a private company (I believe controlled or manipulated by Sloane) hired "the best and the brightest" to decode a book written (by Rambaldi or an associate) in the 15th century. The project took at least 2 years.

Somewhere between this time and 1974 Jack and Irina married, but early into the marriage, or before, Sloane pulled Irina into his obsession with Rambaldi. There was some question years later as to whether Syd was Jack's or Sloane's. Sloane was either trying to get more control over Irina, was trying to fulfill a prophecy in some way, or Irina was trying to, and they had an affair. Syd was born in 1975.

I think Jack believed, based on something he saw or something Sloane said to him, that his child was going to be in danger, maybe a victim of Sloane's or other Rambaldians' obsessions at some point in the future. Right after Syd was born Jack started a project, the subject of which was Syd. Whether S.A.B.47 Project was related to Project Christmas or not is unclear, but by age 6 Jack put Syd through Project Christmas, making her spy capable.

In 1981 Sloane and Irina had at least one more affair which we are told produced Nadia. Soon after discovering that she was pregnant Irina faked her death and escaped back to the Soviet Union, where she had Nadia in 1982. At around age 6 Nadia was given the green Rambaldi fluid by people in a facility in Russia. Before she could complete writing the Rambaldi message for the people there she was kidnapped and taken to South America for safe keeping. (I think Sloane was behind the people who were giving her the fluid because years later, after the facility is long abandoned, that's where Sloane went to get the fluid he used on Nadia.)

Prophet 5 project with Bill Vaughn began in 1972. It lasted for "years." We don't know how many years. Within days of it being finished BV went underground. MV was 18 months old.
If it was 2 years that makes it 1974. He was supposedly killed in 1979, but if he rescued Nadia from the green fluid incident in Russia he would have to have still been alive in about 1988. Which makes me think- was 1988 the last entry date in the journal Elena feed to Vaughn to make him think his father was still alive? If so, then the journal was probably genuine and his father did run off and leave him and his mother to believe he was dead. It seemed to me like Vaughn artificially dropped the whole thing by saying he didn't think his father did that because he couldn't have done it. I think BV did it, faking his own death, because it was the only way his family would be safe- to make the people who wanted to kill him think he was already dead. Isn't that a little like what Jack is doing with and for Vaughn?

If BV rescued Nadia while they were using the green fluid on her, and if she was about 6 at that time, which is what she looked like on the video, then Irina didn't kill him in 1979. The question then is did she kill him at all? Remember, all they had to identify him by was his dental records, just like how they identified Syd by DNA in her teeth after Covenant made it look like she was dead. Did Irina help BV disappear again in 1976, maybe after Prophet 5 people were on to him, by making it look like she killed him. And did he, a dead man, rescue Nadia when others might not have been able to? If so, then she would have continued the charade that she had killed him in order to continue protecting him, which would explain some of the strangeness about the way she relates to MV and his belief she murdered his father.

In 1991 when CIA is no longer useful enough to him Sloane left CIA and started SD-6. Jack followed him, I believe to keep an eye on him to protect Syd, and be a CIA double. But, I believe that before Sloane left CIA he helped motivate DSR into investigating Rambaldi.

While at SD-6, Sloane used the Alliance the way he used the CIA to feed his appetite for Rambaldi. When the Alliance became inconvenient for him he set up a plan to bring it down and loot their Rambaldi collection. His plan included Mckinnis Cole and either setting up or manipulating the Covenant at some point.

As a reformed person, and head of Omnifam, Sloane continued to manipulate people and organizations to further his obsession with Rambaldi, to be the one to bring in his endgame. His involvement with the Covenant became overt when he became a double agent in Covenant for CIA.

Once the Covenant outlived it's usefulness to him he abandoned it to CIA, or at least offered them a straw man, as Elena called it, to bring down. He worked his way back into CIA where he used it again to further his goals. The Sloane Clone was something he engineered with McCullough as a way of being able to get around his agreement with the CIA and continue his Rambaldi work. (Sloane may have been working with Elena at this point too, but he was at least near the end of S4 when he worked to shut her down, which he did because Elena didn't have the endgame right.) Sloane has used, manipulated, built up and brought down whatever people or organizations he needed to in his search for Rambaldi. It is all he cares about and he will do anything he thinks has to be done to reach the goal.

Now, back to Irina:
1970- Irina recruited by KGB at age 18. She was to go to US and get involved with a CIA agent. Jack (already a ranking officer) was only one of the agents under consideration for her to seduce. Gerard Cuvee and Alexander Kasinow were her superiors. FBI counter intellegence officer Caulder (who worked for KGB starting in 1973) was her handler or partner. (It seems that the Russians might have not known about Project Christmas yet and they may have had another goal for Irina. Cuvee was her superior. Cuvee is also the one who headed up a project in The Passage part 2 to crank up a Rambaldi device using the plutonium core of 6 nuclear weapons. For all their effort they succeeded in reviving a 400-600 year old flower. If this flower was the orchid from season 4, then were Cuvee and his young agent, Irina Derevko, really after Rambaldi information from the CIA all along? And, I'll add these comments- The facility where Syd first meets Irina as an adult is the facility Syd first came across the Mueller Device, and Cuvee was there. The next time we see Irina and Cuvee together Cuvee is activating Rambaldi's cell regeneration device and revives a centuries old flower. If that flower was the orchid of S4, then we see Irina and Cuvee with the orchid and the Mueller Device, the 2 main components of Elena's The Flood plan.)
These ideas from someone else:
We know that the Russians have been studying Rambaldi since at least the 50's, may be the KGB hired Irina because of her connection to Rambaldi (remember the box with her name on it). Can Elena Derevko obsession with Rambaldi have been a coincidence ? I don't think so.

Irina is part of the Rambaldi stuff, her children are involved as well, and their involvement might prove fatal, Irina can't have become interested in Rambaldi only to find out later on that she was a part of it, and that her kids were as well, it would be too much of a coincidence, the logical explanation is that she is obsessed because she wants to free her family from the Rambaldi curse.

Back to my ideas about Irina:
Sloane believed that Syd might be his. Irina didn't refute that belief, just told him she will never see him as a loving father. For Sloane to believe he is Syd's father he must have had an affair with Irina about 9 months before Syd was born. For him to believe he could be Nadia's father he must have had another affair with Irina about 9 months before she had Nadia.

As far as what they've told us on the show, Nadia's DNA matches Sloane being her father. Irina didn't reveal to Sloane that Nadia was his child, the Rambaldi document Conrad gave him did that. Irina has never denied Nadia was the product of her affair with Sloane.
They could always pull a fast one on us and have Nadia not be Sloane's. But, unless the writers have written themselves into a corner and they do something strange to get out of it, here's what I think happened:
I think Irina knew something of Rambaldi's prophecy before she came to the US. I think based on her knowledge she knew she was to have 2 children by Jack and/or Sloane and that they would fit into Rambaldi's prophecy. I think the reason she faked her death and ran off was because she knew she was pregnant with her second prophecy child and knew it was time to get this one, the Passenger, back to mother Russia to further their Rambaldi goals.

Kiki said...

HOLY COW Uncle111. That's alot to take in. You covered all the bases. You suuported your "Sloane is Rambaldi" theory very well and it is a very plausible theory. Another great one that has come from the blog. I am just not on the boat. I don't know, perhaps I don't want Sloane to be Rambaldi because it's just too hokey. I feel it would lessen Alias in some way, you know. I think it is very important and very ironic that Rambaldi died researching and producing formulas that would prolong life or promote eternal life.

uncle111 said...

I'm not really on board with the idea either. I think it is interesting, however. I think the info about Irina is something to seriously consider.

Eliza said...

Maybe it is just wishful thinking....but I think Irina has shown that her main goal has been protecting her family...perhaps that was not always the case, but it seems to be now. Though she is very tricky...but in Season 2 they really revealed her emotions...tears...etc. I think she really does love her family...and wants to redeem herself for her at the end of Season 2 when she tries to get the artifacts back into CIA custody by telling Syd where they are, so Sloane won't have them all and get crazy and destroy the world....or just hurt her family.
It makes me sick that she had an affair with Sloane...come on..but still, it would be interesting if Syd was Sloane's and Nadia was Jack's...but hopefully they are both 100% Bristow's.
I like the idea of Sloane using Nadia, while knowing she is not his daughter, in order to further his Rambaldi search....but he is such a complex character it is hard to tell.
Anyway, I guess we will find out soon enough...but I think that Irina is reformed, at least when it comes to her family....oh yeah..! in Season 4, remember she found a rambaldi document...and was frightened by what it said (involved her daughters, and the giant red ball, a flood) so she destroyed it or was going to...then Elena got her and tortured her. To me, that says that for her the Rambaldi obsession is over or has never been...she's about her family...though it plays out in the weirdest of ways...any thoughts???

jenn256 said...

Uncle- do you think Sloane's constant need to drink watrer could have something to do with the storyline if he were in fact Rambaldi? Could that be an "elixir of life" type potion developed to keep him "alive"? And what about the rings he's always wearing and how the number of rings changes almost every season.

I know you were sort of kidding about your theory that Sloane is Rambaldi, however; I wouldn't dismiss it completely, this is the same show that came up with the Helix project and doubled people and has had countless characters come back from the dead.

Eliza said...

about Sloane drinking water...
1) it could be symbolic (classic JJ style) because remember his endgame was to tap into the world's water and infect it with that weird Rambaldi stuff, making them susceptible to the Mueller Device.
2) Maybe he didn't want to drink the water he was 'infecting' and so....he drank his own water constantly...

but I am guessing it is more symbolic to show that Sloane's agenda had something to do with the water...which we find out in either late season three or season four.

Eliza said...

also.....question about Jack..

When Sloane went Rogue from the CIA...did Jack go rogue with him? Or was Jack doubling for the CIA the whole time? Was Jack a bad guy ever? Did he turn on Sloane when Sloane recruited Syd?

srg-alias said...

good question impression was Jack was always doubling for CIA, but it's possible he could have been rogue, then turned back to "good" after Syd was recruited...

uncle111 said...

Sloane and water- could be. It's an interesting idea.