Wednesday, January 25, 2006

Hey, Lazarey

Last night I immersed myself in episodes 3.9 “Conscious,” 3.10 “Remnants,” and 3.11 “Full Disclosure.” While watching these episodes, something very interesting occurred to me. According to Kendall on “Full Disclosure,” Sydney supposedly met Andrian Lazarey as Julia Thorne, when she and Simon Walker were sent by the Covenant to find the Rambaldi cube. Lazarey was some sort of Rambaldi expert or researcher, who had been collecting the 12 keys that would open the vault where the cube was hidden.

If Lazarey was such an expert in the field of Rambaldi (he had a tattoo of the Magnific Order of Rambaldi on his hand) then how did he not recognize Sydney as The Chosen One? If he knew of the Passenger, how did he not know of The Chosen One?

Also, in her briefing with Kendall on her missing two years, Sydney, after learning that she was tested by the Covenant by killing an innocent man, asks “So, I was programmed?” Kendall replies, “Not by the Covenant.” By who then? He goes on to say that Project Christmas saved her from being turned, that Jack had hard wired her to withstand some pretty intense forms of brainwashing. Was this the programming Kendall was referring to?

Now, moving backwards to “Conscious,” Sydney is rescued by her father and the gang from NSC custody. The group frames the Covenant for the extraction. Sloane says to Sydney he knows of a doctor that can help her recover her memories. Sydney asks, “Why didn’t you mention this earlier?” Sloane replies, “Because you weren’t in a place to accept my help.” As I mentioned in my “Set-up” article- I believe Sloane set-up Sydney to be put in NSC custody so that he could actively participate in her extraction, thus gaining Jack and Sydney’s trust. Then he told her of the doctor who would help her remember all she needed to find Lazarey and the cube.

Later, after Sydney and Will trot off to find the cube, Sloane asks Jack where Sydney is. Jack replies, “She is following other leads.” Sloane says something to the affect of “that leads me to believe that the doctor was helpful.” Sloane knew Sydney was on to something. He knew the Covenant would get the cube, and that the Rambaldi device was being used as a bargaining chip in returning Sydney to the CIA. He knew that the Covenant would have all the pieces together. When Lindsey approaches Sloane with the idea of having Sydney assassinated- Lindsey blackmails him. Lindsey says, “I know what you’ve been up to. I have proof.” Then he hands Sloane a piece of paper. What was Sloane up to? What was the proof? Did Lindsey know about Sloane’s work with Elena? Or was Lindsey referring to the secret group that Sloane was working for that later turned on him and had him “executed?”

As I watched “Conscious” there were some connections I made with the current episode “Horizon.” In both episodes Sydney is under some sort of hypnosis or brain therapy. In “Conscious” she dreams that she is fighting herself. She is fighting the part of her that didn’t want to know the truth about the two years. She eventually shoots and kills that part of her. In “Horizon” she argues with “Vaughn,” a version of her subconscious, the part of her that knows she is being used. Dreams are such a huge part of both episodes. If you are interested in reading more about dreams and Alias, I posted an article a few months back about dreams. Check out the archives.

What do you think? Any ideas? Have I sparked anything for anyone?
PS. If you get a chance, go back and watch those episodes, they rock!


amy said...

great question about how lazarey did not immediately recognize syd as the chosen one.....great post. makes me want to get back into S3 -it is the ONLY season i put in storage for my 3 month move because i had just watched it. so i have to be content for now with 1, 2, 4, and of course 5 (:

srg-alias said...

yes, a very good question about Lazarey not IDing Syd as the Chosen One, you'd think he would have known immediately for being the Rambaldi groupie that he was. Then again, Syd was only ID'd from the Rambaldi manuscript, which he might never have seen. This might be stretching things a little, but do we know for sure that Lazarey is in fact dead? We saw Lauren shoot him, and heard Syd call Dixon to tell him that "Lazarey's been shot, he's dead", but it's not like he was shot in the head, so I don't know why we/she immediately assumed he was dead. Thoughts?

momknows said...

I haven't rewatched those specific episodes in awhile but here is a thought...
Could it be, that if you are a member of the order of Rambaldi (with the mark on your hand), there is a specific part of the prophecy that you are assigned to? Each "follower" only has enough info to complete their assignment? Maybe Rambaldi knew that too much info for one person would be detrimental, in more ways than one. Just look at Slone, Elena, Prophet 5. Could Rambaldi have foreseen his works being used for evil-- so he kept the knowledge dispersed?

Kiki said...

Very good MomKnows, that is what I was thinking. Ana Espinoza was in charge of acquiring in manuscript. It seems like each has a role and they have to accomplish it for the greater good. And yes, we don't know if Lazarey is really dead or not.

Robetron said...

Addressing some of the thoughts and questions in the artice:

Why are you assuming that Lazarey didn't know Sydney as "The Chosen One"? As Julia Thorne, she was ordered to kill Lazarey. That alone menas that he was working counter to someone's agenda. maybe he was trying to good things with his Rambaldi knowledge (not to mention providing information to the CIA via Will Tippin). Syd chose to have mercy on him; I am guessing she had a good reason. Anyway, if an assasin had been sent to kill you, but sparred you, saved your life, and give you a new future, I'd think anyone would tend to trust her.

Regarding Kendall's comments: No matter what it is you are trying to interpret, Rambaldi texts, trashy novels, the sports page, anchient Greek, or a conversation between two people, context means everything. Unless a person is purposely trying to be cryptic or deceptive, context always determins the meaning of words within the scope of the word's definition(s). This is a good and healthy rule of hermeneutics (the science of interpretation). Kendall's reply to the question about being programmed, "Not by the Covenant," has its implied explanation in what followed: the Project Christmas programming. Sydney was seeking an explanation as to why she would kill the helpless man, but instead was confounded to find out that it was a conscious decision she made in order to convince the Covenant that she had indeed been turned, and therefore get in the open to contact Kendall in the first place. Her actual question, was implied and ignored: "How could I kill that man in cold blood?" Kendall answered the actual question, leaving her distressed about the implications that it was her decision without any other influence. Of course, the answer was forth coming, "They were going to kill him anyway."

Regarding Sloane in S-3: The blackmail "proof" Lindsey had on Sloane had to be one or both of two things. Sloane had been simultaneously searching through the world's private medical records for his daughter (whom he knew to be the Passenger), AND infecting the world's drinking water with a synthetic substance that resembled the nectar of the orchid (from S-4). Where this "proof" went after Lindsey was assisinated, is anyone's guess.

Regarding the frequent dream sequences: I am beginning to believe there is a method behind many ofthe frequent themes we are seeing. there have been at least three referrences to the children's book, "Through the Looking Glass," as well as several "Alice In Wonderland" call-outs. Both of those (I'm not sure if they are related books) have significant connections to dreams and madness. I am currious to know if we will ever know why these things continue to pop up on our ALIAS-mystery-radar.

Well chosen topics, GS. Keep up the good work.

momknows said...

robetron, here's online literature's synopsis of "Through the Looking Glass" says:

The 1872 sequel to Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland finds Carroll’s inquisitive heroine in a fantastic land where everything is reversed. Alice encounters talking flowers, madcap kings and queens, and strange mythological characters when she becomes a pawn in a bizarre chess game involving Humpty Dumpty, Tweedledum and Tweedledee, and other amusing nursery-rhyme characters.

Does this give you any ideas??

Robetron said...

Wow. Its surely does. Thank you for that!

What if...
...P5 are the good guys, which is why our beloved Irena is working with them: to protect Sydney and her baby?
...Jack is the true villan in this whole scenario, and Sloane is just his puppet?
...Nadia is her true evil-nemesis, manipulating everything from the beginning?

Okay, this is silly and out of hand, but the connection to the books and dreams/ mind alteration is unmistakeable.

If I were more versed on the chronicles of Alice, I might be more willing to speculate.

Anyone else?

Kiki said...

Awesome ideas, and not far off from what I have been thinking Robby. I think the end will prove the Alias theme true "Nothing is as it seems!"

Robetron said...

What if... the final episode - final 3 minutes, Sydney wakes up in a steril environment. She notices her room looks like a cell of some type. Bearded men with receeding gray hairlines and white coats walk by with clipboards. The blueish-green scrubs she is wearing is just like several other people she can see stumbling through the hall way looking lobotomized. She is in a mental hospital.

The doctor walks into the room, leaving the door open behind him. "Good morning," he says as though she ought to know him. "I see by the look on your face, the treatment worked. you are recovering nicely." In the course of his narration, she realizes that she has been in there for a significant amount of time.

"Where's my baby," She demands.
"Sydney, there is no baby."
"Tell me where she is. You do not want to play this game with me." She grabs his lapels in her fists - fists that feal very weak.

"Sydney, just calm down a minute. Everything will be explained as soon as your parents get here," the doctor says in reasuring tones, waving off the orderlies investigating from the hall. They wander off, going about their business.

She kicks his legs from under him, dropping him on the floor with a dull thud. Like lightning, she puts the doctor in a leg-lock. "You will tell me now, or you'll never walk again."

"Okay, okay. Ahhh! Just let me up!" She slowly eases off the presure. He barely stands, limping to the plastic chair in the corner.
"Talk, and talk fast; I'm running out of patience," Syd snarls. "Where is my baby?"

"Sydney, when we picked you up five years ago, you were in shock; you were catatonic. Your mind was unable to deal with the horror of seeing your future husband murdered in the apartment. You have been playing out a sort-of conspiracy in your mind about working for the CIA, rather than the bank job you had at the time. Your delusions grew stronger and stronger. Your father, Jack and your mother, Laura authorized a special experimental treatment. We didn't get the chemical properties correct right away, and every time we thought we were making headway with your treatments, you would sink even deeper into your psychosis. It was very distressing to your parents, but, you'll be glad to know that it brought them back together again. They have been remarried for two years."

"You're lying, of course," Sydney hisses, "but I do not see how you hope to manipulate me with such rediculous scenarios."

"It's true Sydney." The familiar stern, yet flat tone of her father's voice rolled into the room from the hallway. Jack enters first, and holding his arm is her mother. She races to Sydney and embraces her with tears.

"Oh my Sydney. You've come back to me!" Sydney's mouth is agape, looking at her smiling father.

"Laura, take it easy. She has a lot to take in, yet."

The picture goes black.

Now that would be an Alice-like blow your mind ALIAS type ending to the series, huh?

Anonymous said...

hey, wasn't there a storyline a little like that in "buffy the vampire slayer"? waking up in a psych hospital, etc?

Robetron said...

I never watched that show, so I have no idea.

Here, and I thought I was being creatively original.

uncle111 said...

I don't think Lazaray would necessarily have known Syd was The Chosen One. Only those who had seen the Rambaldi manuscrpit with her picture in it have assumed she was possibly it. The Rambaldi artifacts had been scattered all over the world, bought and traded for centuries, maybe. So, it would be difficult for anyone to everything.

I've been watching S4. In E8 and E9 there is more strong evidence that Sloane is working with Elena and using APO to do it. I'll list the evidence tomorrow when I have more time to write.

In E10 I start getting clues that even though Sloane has an agreement with Jack and that they are working on something together, Sloane is also using deceiving and using Jack to further his Rambaldi work. More on that tomorrow also.

uncle111 said...

Oh, I forgot, the one nagging question I have about the scene where Syd is telling Kendall that she found someone she thinks can wipe her memory of the missing 2 years, is that they show her on the lab table and they show the Dr. walking around, but they never show his face. Is it someone they purposely didn't want us to see or know the identity of?

Robetron said...

I think it is very probable that the Dr.'s identity was intended to be kept secrit, just like the panel of men and women who were sitting in the shadows while she was being tortured.

RUDY said...

Okay. Don't knock my idea down too fast. But the guys and gals in the shadows were awfully familiar to me, well one of them actually. If you listen closely, one of them sounds very much like McKenas Cole. And as we know, he's working for the Covenant. Later on he shows his face as the head of Covenant operations, when Lauren and Sark murder the six Covenant cell leaders and steals the keys to their respective headquarters.

Robetron said...

Wow... thats cool. I remembered thinking the same thing. I thought one of hte femail figures looked a little like Irena with her hair up.

We may never know, but its not over til its over.

Kiki said...

Oh one thing I forgot to mention related to Robby's theory that Jack and Irina are the good guys. Don't forget, Irina means peace. And Robby, I also toyed with the idea that Sydney would be "dreaming" all this, or it was some sort of simulation. Interesting.

srg-alias said...

Oh man, if they actually ended Alias with the whole series being some kind of a dream of dilusion I would be seriously pissed. BUT that's not to discount robby's idea, I think it is very clever the way you laid it out. :) As for McKennas, yes it was him talking in "Full Disclosure" instructing Julia/Syd to kill that guy. I forget what I saw that confirmed might have been a commentary that said they got Quentin to comeback to do the voice. I know that Irena sat and watched while Syd was tortured in Horizon, but I seriously doubt she was behind the torturing and brainwashing attempts that the Covenant tried on Syd for 6 months, that would be a bit much. I know I never thought Irena could be behind the glass in Horizon either, but that was nothing compared to what she went through in her missing 2 years. I believe Irena to have Syd's best interests at heart, and I don't see any positive spin that could be put on Syd being forced to be Julia. I think that was Elena all the way.

uncle111 said...

Okay, Here's what I came across that let me to write,"I've been watching S4. In E8 and E9 there is more strong evidence that Sloane is working with Elena and using APO to do it," and, "In E10 I start getting clues that even though Sloane has an agreement with Jack and that they are working on something together, Sloane is also using deceiving and using Jack to further his Rambaldi work."
Now, my conclusions are drawn from observing patterns we've learned to watch for. Here is what I observed:
Remember, Elena told them at the end of S4 that when they thought they had brought down the Covenant that they really brought down a straw man. The CRF in the first half of S4 is made up of former Covenant members. Some have said it was what Covenant became, but that isn't how it is described; they say of CRF members they are former Covenant, not that CRF is formerly Covenant. I think they were a Covenant branch. When Sark (former Covenant)is told by Vaughn that CRF is making a bomb he replied "So, it has begun"...but he won't tell Vaughn what "it" is. Sloane works a deal with Sark, that ends up with Sark being extracted by Anna E. Anna knows two things about Sark that she had to learn from someone else. The first is that Sark has an explosive device in his neck. Sark didn't even know it was there. The second is that Sark had the personal capitol to make a deal work with an arms dealer so Anna could sell the guy a bomb for 20 million. Who knows the most about what criminal and terrorist elements have what kind of relationships with each other than Sloane. And who else who knew of the explosive in Sark's neck and would have a reason to pass these two bits of intel to Anna? The same guy who made it possible for Sark to be out where he could escape- Sloane.

Also, remember when Elena came to visit Nadia and Sloane took her print while shaking her hand. He said that a check of the print showed she was clean. I think he lied. We've seen before that they have been able to come up with all kinds of information on just about anyone in the world. Surely Sloane found out something about a person of such interest as Elena Derevko.

So, if Sloane lied about Elena (though even if he didn't) and if he was working the Sark and Anna events, he must have been doing it behind Jack's back and I believe he was doing it to work his way into taking over Elena's operation for himself.

Something else that came out in these episodes that interested me :
1- Nadia told Syd that while she was under the influence of the green fluid she had a hallucination.
"I saw something awful. Sounds and fast images, they went by very quickly, but there was one vision that felt so real...We were both together, scared and upset, holding guns aimed at each other. And I remember my hands were shaking...and I pulled the trigger. Blood was pouring down your chest and I wanted to say I was sorry, but you just looked at me as if you'd been expecting it. As if you knew all along, knew I was going to kill you."
2- Syd replied by telling Nadia about a conversation between Irina and a man who's voice they could never identify(strange) on a surveillance tape from Hamburg. She was telling the man the meaning of <0>. < > represent her 2 daughters (so she only has 2?). The 0 is the object over which they will do great battle..."According to Rambaldi only one of the daughters will survive."

Now, looks to me that no matter how you slice it the S4 finale does not fit Irina's description of the meaning of <0>, and it doesn't fit Rambaldi's prophecy of the Chosen One bringing down the greatest power, and it doesn't fit Nadia's vision while under the influence of the green fluid. P5 must still have some Rambaldi endgame in sight and the S4 finale must have been a distraction.

Kiki said...

BRAVO UNCLE111. Nice work on connecting Sloane, Ana and Sark in season 4!!! I always wondered how she knew about the bomb in his neck! YES! I am so inspired, I am going to watch those eppies this weekend!!

srg-alias said...

ditto what GS said, well done uncle! :)

uncle111 said...

Another tip from S4:
The Sloane Clone knew that he, Arvin Sloane had Dixon's wife killed. That means Sloane's memories had to have been down loaded by McCullogh after that event- well after SD-6 was brought down. It was after Dixon killed Emily Sloane in the raid on Sloane in Italy. I think it was right before he made his deal with the CIA and became the head of OmniFam so, as I've theorized before, he could have a clone of himself doing Rambaldi work while he appeared to be out of the business.

uncle111 said...

I just realized this:
Why would the Sloane Clone work with Elena, unless that is what Arvin Sloane would (did?) do also?

RUDY said...


Great thought. Sloane Clone did have the exact brain pattern as Sloane. And we all know that Sloane goes where his intentions go.