Tuesday, December 20, 2005

We Know This Much Is True...

Irina Derevko would never intentionally hurt her daughters. It has been general blog consensus that Irina is working in the best interest of Sydney and her baby. Aside from her question about whether or not the drugs would affect the baby, Irina has made it very clear (to Jack, with a slap in the face) that despite her underworld status as an international terrorist and CIA murderer, she cares deeply for her daughters and is only trying to protect them from dangerous enemies.

Sydney is lead to her mother through Alexander Kassinau, the man thought to be “The Man.” Irina aligns herself with Kassinau in order to get her hands on a Rambaldi manscript. She turns herself into the CIA in order to gain access to their resources. She manipulates her way into leading a CIA mission to trap Sloane and she unexpectedly betrays the CIA and Sydney by handing the Rambaldi Bible over to Sloane. She, Sloane and Sark then kidnap Neil Caplan, a mathematician, in order for him to piece together Rambaldi’s puzzle. The CIA is able to save Caplan, but Irina disappears, as does Sloane.

We later discover, via Irina on the CIA jet, that Irina was taken captive by her sister Elena. A double was then made of Irina and she was framed for hiring Tomasaki to assassinate Sydney. Jack learned of this and killed the doppelganger. However, when information on the Helix Protocol was found on the PDA of one of Elena’s foot soldiers, Sydney and Vaughn discover that Irina is, in fact, alive. Sydney and Nadia track their mother to Brazil and save her. Irina is the only one that can stop Elena and her endgame by dismantling the Mueller Device. The last we see of Irina, she disappears into the night, once the flood as destroyed Svogda. Her vast knowledge of Rambaldi and his endgame has saved Sydney, as well as APO on several occasions. Her agenda and true intensions have never been represented, but as the series finale looms, it is possible we will finally discover Irina’s own endgame.

Now she has returned as an associate of P5. Dr. Desantis has Sydney kidnapped and hypnotized in order to discover the location of Horizon. If we recall, when Sydney asked Ivan Curtis on the plane who he was working for, he answered, “Even if I told you, you wouldn’t believe me.” If Irina is behind or in cahoots with P5 it would explain Bill Vaughn’s murder. Vaughn tells us in the season 5 opener that members of the group recruited to decipher the Rambaldi text were dying mysteriously. To protect himself and his young family, Bill Vaughn changed his name and moved. Perhaps Irina was able to locate him and kill him. Assuming Vaughn and Sydney are the same age, they would have both been 8 at the time of Bill Vaughn’s death. Thus, Irina had been “dead” for 2 years and Nadia would have been nearly 1 years old. Whether or not it is true that Bill Vaughn took Nadia and handed her over to Elena, it’s unclear. We only hear this from Elena, whose main objective was giving false information to manipulate.

Let’s say Bill Vaughn had nothing to do with Nadia. Simply, Irina killed him because he was a member of the group that deciphered the code, as she had killed the others. It would give reason to why she did not kill Sloane, who was also a member of the group. Assuming Sloane really is Nadia’s father, only he would be able to locate Nadia as the Passenger. So, it was necessary for Irina to keep Sloane alive, in order to find her daughter, that I assume Elena kidnapped.

I am sure Irina didn’t anticipate that Sydney would fall in love with the man whose father she killed. However, Irina was aware that Vaughn was investigating P5, per their discussion on the train tracks in the finale of season 4. She urged Vaughn to tell Sydney what he was working on. What I can’t piece together is why Irina would want Sydney investigating a top secret terrorist organization she is apart of? That is, unless she needed Sydney or her baby for some specific reason. By the looks of the make-shift nursery, I would say Baby Bristow-Vaughn will be entering into an Alice and Wonderland world, soaked in Rambaldi prophecy. If Irina is in the chain of command for P5, then how can we explain the hit of Vaughn? I can’t imagine Irina would tell Vaughn to reveal the truth about his investigation to Sydney only to have him killed. And if Vaughn was extracted by Irina, why would she not just ask Vaughn for the name on the SD-6 map, instead of kidnapping her pregnant daughter and pumping her full of drugs? (I still believe that Jack and Sydney faked Vaughn’s death).

Also, I am having a hard time understanding Irina’s motivation for leaving Nadia in a coma. That is, unless Irina knows that Nadia DOES pose a threat to Sydney and her baby. Irina does know that she can use Nadia to manipulate Sloane and perhaps keeping Nadia in a coma is for her own good.

As for the connection between P5 and SD-6, I see there are plenty. For one, the Alliance and SD-6 were both after the artifacts of Rambaldi. Sloane bringing down the Alliance, combined with Irina’s infiltration of the CIA while she was in custody, put one person in possession of all the Rambaldi artifacts. Elena. Now that Elena is gone, perhaps P5 was able to gain possession of the artifacts and Horizon is the key. Or perhaps Horizon is the only remaining artifact after the flood in Svogda destroyed the others.

Here are several definitions of horizon:
-The apparent intersection of the earth and sky as seen by an observer. Also called apparent horizon.

The sensible horizon.
The celestial horizon.
The limit of the theoretically possible universe.
The range of one's knowledge, experience, or interest.

A specific position in a stratigraphic column, such as the location of one or more fossils, that serves to identify the stratum with a particular period.
A specific layer of soil or subsoil in a vertical cross section of land.

Archaeology: A period during which the influence of a specified culture spread rapidly over a defined area: artifacts associated with the Olmec horizon in Mesoamerica.

Do any of these definitions spark an idea about what Horizon could possibly be? Remember, we are talking Rambaldi here; we are talking advanced technological knowledge, vast questions about human nature, human genealogy and using science as a way to know God.
Phhew! That was a long one, was it not?? Lots of information! Let the toss of theory and speculation begin!

PS. I do have to say, I agree with blogger Rudy. I do believe that Jack and Irina are working together to bring down P5 and that we haven’t been given enough information to explain some of their strategic moves (i.e Vaughn’s “death,” Sydney’s kidnapping etc.) Remember, Jack tasked Sydney to go and speak with Renee, leaving Sydney vulnerable to kidnapping. Then Jack asked Renee to kill Desantis. I suppose Sloane could be involved. If you’ve noticed, several members of the P5 Map have been killed (Dean by Sloane, Desantis and Curtis).


jenn256 said...

Could X-23 Norte be a coordinant for the Horizon. Norte being Latin for North maybe? It seems like we have been down this road before. Thiss all seems very familiar. Did Syd give Anna a wrong coordinant for a Rambaldi artifact or something like that?

I still am puzzled about this map though. Vaughn showed Syd a map in S1. Was this a CIA issued map to explain how complex SD-6 was? Wouldn't it have been easier for Irina to somehow get the map or a copy of it from someone inside the CIA (we all know Irina stil has connections everywhere) rather than kidnap her daughter, drug her and leave her on a barge in teh middle of the ocean? Was that really the only copy of the map? Irina seems to be going through a lot of trouble for this information. This is clearly soemthing new she is working on, she had plenty of opportunities in the past to hypnotize Syd and get the info herself. Could Irina have possibly only gotten involved after she learned that Syd's baby was going to be in danger? I agree that she woudn't have told Vaughn to let Syd in on his secret if she knew Syd was pregnant and would be in so much danger.

Here's my thought....I think Irina told Vaughn that he needed to come clean with Syd and P5, knowing her daughter well enough to know that she would want to help Vaughn uncover the truth. Perhaps Syd is the only person able to decypher the Horizon because she knows the true location of P5 from the map. But when Irina learned of her daughter's prgnancy, she stepped in, involved Jack, who arranged for Syd's "kidnapping" and subsequent hypnotizing to get the info. What do you all think? Too far?

srg-alias said...

No I don't think it's too far Jenn, but I do have a hard time believing Jack was involved in the kidnapping. It wouldn't make any sense for him to torture and have Renee kill Desantis if Jack helped to orchestrate the abduction. Plus he looked completely shocked to see the nursery, I don't think that was just an act. BUT anything can happen since it's Alias, and we know that there has to be an APO mole somewhere that leaked out where Syd was meeting Renee.

I agree that Irena had many opportunities in the past to get her hands on the SD6 map or info on the Horizon, and it seems that she might be new to P5 because of that. I believe that she might have been involved in the coverup of Vaughn's "death" and hiding him away (yes I've always believed that he's not dead and is just in hiding). As for the mixed up timeline of Nadia's delivery to the orphanage and Bill Vaughn's murder, I do hope they clear that up because the stories certainly don't match up.

Kiki said...

Yes, I am wondering, doesn't the map still exist and wouldn't it have been in Vaughn's files? It was his map. Hmmm. I am interested to see who is working with who and for what purpose. And it was nadia who gave lauren and sark the wrong coordinates to the Rambaldi dig site in season 3.

Anonymous said...

The map is something of importance, or rather is holding something of importance. From the whole "Syd kidnapping and hypnosis" thing, one might assume that the map from season one was Vaughn's own map, not a map of the CIA. He was investigating P5 on his own. It was off the books. The CIA didn't know, so maybe they didn't have the map Vaughn had. Maybe he created it from the information that he was gathering on his undercover P5 side-mission. Since "horizon" means "the apparent intersection of the earth and sky as seen by an observer," maybe the horizon is the one person, cell or something that is the "intersection" of SD-6 [alliance] and P5. Maybe this is what Vaughn found. Maybe this intersection could possibly be the starting whole through which the rabbit enters into P5. But the question then remains: Why would P5 want this? Shouldn't the P5 crowd already know this if it's true?

RUDY said...

I forgot to post my name above.

RUDY said...

Oh...sorry for the above.

I also wanted to add that I VERY MUCH believe that Irina would never hurt Syd, and, from watching season two's finale last night, this notion became every more true when Irina said the following while standing over Syd on the ice: "Sydney, I'm your mother. I have to believe that'd be the case under any circumstance."

WOW!!! LoVe IrInA....

Kiki said...

The map is of SD-6. Of course the CIA had access, they were investigating SD-6, they had double agents inside SD-6. The SD-6 map was the CIA's map not a map Vaughn had for this investigation.

Myosotis said...

I also think that Jack and Irina are working together, but if they are, why did he look so surprised when he saw the nursery ? I just can't figure it out

Kiki said...

Taking the baby might have been part of Desantis' plan, not Irina's. Remember, they aren't in charge, they are merely players.

Myosotis said...

yeah, but she might know that P5 is after the baby, which would give her a reason to keep Sydney on a boat in the middle of nowhere

Kiki said...

Good point Myo!! Very good point and now maybe Jack thinks Irina is betraying him??? Hence the look on Jack's face when he saw the psycho nursery.

Robetron said...

GS, I also have been bewildered as to why they would go to such great lenghts to extract Syd's memory of a map which the CIA must surely still have. It is probably in storage somewhere since the SD-6 case is officially closed. Moreover, if P-5 is partially run by the 12 main governmental Intelligence Agencies, wouldn't thye have very easy access to that cache of material? If they have enough influence to get Arvin Sloane out of the ringer, they could easily influence someone to retreive the actual map. Something isn't sticking here.

Just as an aside, the Pilot episode was not the only time we see the map. Remember the time that Syd was seriously considering quiting the spy biz? Vaughn pulled outthe map and showed her how many evil-agents had been taken down because of their work together. (It was a little wierd that he had the same people crossed out in the pilot, but I was willing to suspend my disbelief.) I'm not certain which episdoe or even which season, but I'd like to go back and see if we can get a better look at the map.

I also had a few questions about the minor role of Dr Desantis who had two entire episodes dedicated to him coming out of that box, leaving us with umpteen questions about him... and then a month later he is killed off the show like some sort of lacky. I gave more effort to pose the question on PKRM's blog, though. I'd like to know what in theworld is going on around here with leaving the loose ends all over the place. they are quickly running out of time to answer questions we had from season 1. I'm beginning to worry.

pkrm said...

I know this might seem like a lame post, but I think this last episode was fantastic...not just for the flashbacks and how well it was put together, but of how incredible the cliffhanger was!

Look at all these questions we have! Look at all the speculation we are having with no real way to know for sure! I would love to start developing theories along with you guys, but unfortunately, I don't think we have enough information about Irina's role in this organization to begin piecing anything together yet. Sounds kind of defeatist, I know, but they really left us hanging! You can bet I'll have my TV on for the next episode!!!

And I can understand your sense of concern, robetron, but don't forget there are still 9 episodes left...there's still 4-1/2 hours of show for them to get everything tied up...and that's a serious amount of time. I believe if the writers who wrote the last episode are as into the plot as we are, they're as interested in wrapping things up satisfyingly as we are (although we might be more psycho?)! hehe! :)

Angela said...

I keep wondering about the comment Lauren made just before Vaughn killed her-- (to Syd) "You think you just happened to be assigned to Vaughn when you went to the CIA?" or something like that. Who was pulling those strings? Alias is great at hiding the Big Picture, and that's part of the picture I'm just not seeing.

As to Baby B-V, there could always be another Rambaldi prophecy we haven't seen yet--the child of the "chosen one" and ** will ** . . . bring peace on earth? :-) Who knows?


Robetron said...

At the present time, it looks like Lauren was talking about the fact that Elena Derevco had been manipulating both of them as the head of the Covenant, as well as manipulating Nadia by posing as a kind old care-give from her orphan days.
Some of what Lauren said was open ended enough to possibly include the current plot. We know the 12 Agencies that control Prophet 5 are a part of the grand structer of thier nation's governments. It is possible that Elena was either working with/ for them, or was acting counter to their agenda. In either respect, it may explain some of our head-scratchers.

Kiki said...

I think Lauren said, "You can't beleive that both you and your sister happen to be agents?" I don't think it was related to Vaughn, but Lauren said several things that were left wide open. If we are now going back to SD-6 ties, maybe there will be Covenant ties too, we could learn more about Lauren was talking about.

Lisa said...

Wow! so much to think about. Let's not forget our little Asian friend in the wheelchair- could he be behind any of this? He seems to pop up at the most unexpected times (or is he "dead?" I can't remember...
On another note, has anyone ever tried to decipher any code hidden in the location typeset in each episode? You know, the letters that are highlighted and lead the camera into the next scene in "Los Angeles" or "Mexico City"... Have you come up with anything?

JD's Rose said...

Ohh my gosh! We are still on season 4. I am going email this link home, so that I can read every post!

Angela said...

You know, you are right, Robetron, Lauren said that bit about the sisters. But I remember SOMEONE saying or questioning--maybe it was Syd, at the beginning of season 5--how she came to be assigned to Vaughn. The implication was that it wasn't mere happenstance. (I didn't tape S5--waiting for the DVDs).

I wondered who could have been controlling things within the CIA. Jack? Hardly seems likely; he didn't even LIKE Vaughn during seasons 1 and 2. Eleana didn't have that much pull there, did she?

LOL. Maybe we're going to find out at the end that the Man Who would Rule the World and Control Everything was . . . Dix. :-)

Seriously, there was that awful Halatchki (sp?) guy, who was working for the Bad Guys. Maybe he set it up, since he was technically Vaughn's boss. Then who was controlling him? Sloane/SD-6? Or someone else?


srg-alias said...

Minor sidenote to Robetron, the only time we saw the SD-6 map was in the second episode of season 1 when Vaughn showed it to Syd in the blood donor van. We never saw it in the pilot episode, so it's only been shown once before now.

Angela, it was Vaughn who said to Syd in the season 4 finale that it was no accident she was assigned to him. In the s5 premiere we found out that in his research into prophet 5, Vaughn came across the name "Meuller", and when Syd came to the CIA w/ her story she mentioned the Meuller device. Because of the connection, Vaughn volunteered to be her handler, hope that helps clear up some of your questions. :)

Lisa, excellent point about creepy Asian wheelchair guy! I totally forgot about him!! I think the last time we saw him was in s3 when Vaughn tortured him for info. on the whereabouts of Sloane/Lauren, is that right?

I agree w/ you pkrm, it takes a really good episode to get all our ideas and questions flowing, and Horizon certainly did that! :)

pkrm said...

Yes, srg, the creepy wheelchair guy (who Will put in the wheelchair) is Dr. Jong Lee, aka "Suit and Glasses."

I SERIOUSLY want this guy to return at least one time in one episode. He was in the pilot and seen several times...let's bring him back full circle!

And yes, Vaughn volunteered for the Syd assignment because Sydney mentioned the Mueller device, and it was something he had seen before from his P5 investigation.

Robetron said...

I haven't had the time to search for it yet, but I am quite confident we have seen the map in another episode. There was the map without the red circles and a clear plastic overlay that had the red circles which showed who had been x-ed out. Someone... help me out remembering!

Tammy said...

Robetron - I remember that as well. I have no recollection of when it was, but I think it was when Syd was threatening to just quit - maybe in or around the episode of McKennas Cole - she was going into Sloane to quit when she found out the takeover had happened. I seem to remember that Vaughn had been trying to convince her she couldn't quit, and showing that map was one way he proved to her they were doing some good!! I'll see if I can find the episode tonight!

Angela said...

I remember seeing the map twice--and the overlay. It was when Syd seriously wanted to quit because something had happened--somebody died maybe?--and Vaughn used the map to keep her in the game.

I've always liked how Alias DOES complete minor story arcs while keeping the Big Picture going. I mean, SD-6 did fall, Eleana was foiled, Lauren and the Covenant DID bite the dust. And we had for some of those arcs to be finished before Syd and Vaughn could be together (SD-6, Lauren/Covenant, etc). Which helps me believe that P5 will go down, and Vaughn will resurface . . . hope springs eternal!


Andreas said...

Robetron: The map over SD-6 was shown for the second time in the episode "The Box Part 1" back in season one. And just like tammy mentioned, that was the episode starring Quentin Tarrantin as McKenas Cole.

andreas said...

Of course his name is Quentin Tarantino and not Tarrantin.=)

By the way, I think Irina has played a major part of Prophet Five as early as from the beginning. Because of her obsession of Rambaldi she became interested when learning that P5 were studying his codes. She then became a member of P5 and still is.

I also think that Bill Vaughn is alive, considering the fact that he as well were a Rambaldi follower, I do not think Irina killed him but faked his death (just like Syd did with Lazarey's death). Of course I too believe that Michael is alive BUT, my guess is that Irina learned of the hit made for Vaughn. She then acted as the beloved and loving mother she obviously is and helped in the hiding of him.

In the end, it is well known that Irina Derevko would to everything in her power to protect her daughter(s) from danger. But her Rambaldi obsession just is to big some times.

andreas said...

Angela: Sydney was considering to quit the agency because of the fact that she had just learned about Irina being former KGB. She first suspected Jack of being KGB but in the episode before The Box, Jack told her about Irina. As I am sure you remember, Syd always thought her mother was a teacher and the whole image she had of her mother just crashed.

srg-alias said...

andreas and tammy, thanks for the correction, I remember now when Vaughn showed Syd the map the second time to convince her the good she had done as a double agent. I had totally forgotten about that! :)

Robetron said...

*does his best Rodney Dangerfield*

I get no respect!
No respect at all!

Just kidding.

Kiki said...

Good job Robetron. I too remembered the map being shown a second time, with the overlay. Hmm, I wonder if we will see it again.

srg-alias said...

sorry robetron, totally my mistake!! :)

Andrew said...

"As for the connection between P5 and SD-6, I see there are plenty. For one, the Alliance and SD-6 were both after the artifacts of Rambaldi. Sloane bringing down the Alliance, combined with Irina’s infiltration of the CIA while she was in custody, put one person in possession of all the Rambaldi artifacts. Elena."

I'm following all of this Rambaldi stuff up until the point that you say it all ends up with Elena. How? How did Elena and the Covenant get all of the Rambaldi artifacts when Irina had them? Was it because they abducted Irina?

I'm beginning to see the ties between Alliance and P5, but do you believe that the Covenant had ties to P5?

Prophet 5 is beginning to look like the ultimate evil that was tied to almost everything else they've ever fought to bring down.

BTW, amazing post GS, it brought together a lot of assumptions that Horizon presented.

srg-alias said...

I like that idea andrew of P5 being behind all of the evil orgs, Alliance, Covenant, etc. It would be a great way to tie everything together and end the Rambaldi saga at the end of the series.

Kiki said...

Andrew, thank you, I thought it was a good post too, if you don't mind my say so. Irina struck up a deal with Sloane in season 2, along with Sark (remember, Syd had to hand over Sloane in order to get Vaughn a cure for his finger bleeding). Together Sloane and Irina combined their resources to collect Rambaldi artifacts. When Sloane was finally caught and waged a deal (by turning in Bomani), all of the Rambaldi artifacts were handed over to the DSR. In season 4, Elena's little foot soldier, the French guy with mustache, breaks into the DSR and steals all the artifacts, that is how Elena got them.

I am still trying to figure out what was at the dig site? Oh right, the coorinates that Nadia gave Sark and Lauren were wrong. It was the Rambaldi box and Sloane and Nadia went looking for at the end of season 3. I forgot.

Desiree said...

Was X-23 Norte the coordinates that Syd gave under hypnosis? I don't have that epi on tape. If it was...wasn't it the wrong coordinates? I thought that "Vaughn" told her that they would figure out that she had given them the wrong coordinates. Did she tell the real ones to APO?I have two small kids and so the last few epi's were a bit jumbled. Please fill me in.

amy said...

i had the same thoughts about how quickly they killed disantis after the whole "who's in the box" suspense....it made me wonder how far in advance they are planning these plotlines...come back JJ!!! we need some continuity!!!